Using the TBM-3 in Coral Sea setups

[Triton28]

You do misunderstand. So I'll repeat myself.What that means is, by giving the Allies the B5N as a sub for the TBD, the Allies then use an aircraft that is MORE SIMILAR to the TBD than they currently get with the TBM.

I just simply disagree.  Not only for the reasons I posted above, but the immersion factor as well.  I think Perdweeb cartoons the issue when he makes it out to simply be a paint job whine.  It's not.  Even if you paint it blue and slap some stars on it I'm still gonna know it's a damn Kate. 

 

[perdue3]

The paint thing was response to CAP's "looks over at his wingman's plane and sees meatballs" comment.

[Devil 505]

I just simply disagree.  Not only for the reasons I posted above, but the immersion factor as well.  I think Perdweeb cartoons the issue when he makes it out to simply be a paint job whine.  It's not.  Even if you paint it blue and slap some stars on it I'm still gonna know it's a damn Kate. 

Either way, you are NOT in a TBD. That's the whole point; finding a proper substitute for the TBD, and the TBM is not suitable given its gross performance and survivability upgrade.

[CAP1]

                                       TBM STATS FOR BATTLE OF THE CORAL SEA

FRAME 1= TOTAL 32

KILLS=2
ASSISTS=6
KILLED=19
SAFE LAND=3
OBJ DEST=12
SHIPS SUNK=4

FRAME 2 TOTAL 34

KILLS=4
ASSISTS=7
KILLED=25
SAFE LAND=1
OBJ DEST=18
SHIPS SUNK=0

FRAME 3 TOTAL 37

KILLS=4
ASSISTS=0
KILLED=26
SAFE LAND=0
OBJ DEST=4
SHIPS SUNK=2

it actually appears to me as if the pilots of the avenger suffered pretty heavily in this setup.

[Triton28]

Either way, you are NOT in a TBD. That's the whole point; finding a proper substitute for the TBD, and the TBM is not suitable given its gross performance and survivability upgrade.

Right.  The way I'm tilting my head at it though, the TBM is a TBD on steriods.  It's better, no doubt, but they both share some classic American Navy plane traits.  The Kate, aside from straight and level speed, climb, and guns (again, tallest midget) shares virtually no traits with the TBD except... it carries a torpedo.

[CAP1]

My tactic? No-no. That was all Pand and the 416 getting through. If I had my choice, I would have sent NONE on attack. My tactic was having every available aircraft defend the boats. I believed that with enough defenders, we could have kept the boats up. I was dead wrong. My plan hinged on keeping the IJN carriers afloat. I failed. I intended to send all the defending D3As on an attack after T+60 after rearming on the ships that got sunk, despite a great effort and great result in ultimately killing USN aircraft. But alas, even in a defensive rout, we couldn't keep the carriers sailing. It simply takes too many IJN aircraft too long to kill TBM's  

 ok. pands tactics. either way, my point was that a capitol ship was lost due to what he and 2 others did. almost 5 others, but apparently one of his pilots couldn't wait for his saki, and went swimming.

[Arlo]

My plan for frame 3 had the minimum numbers of attackers and as many as possible on defense. The actual numbers were 48 attackers (32 B5N and 16 D3A) and 107 defenders (70 A6M2 and 37 D3A).
The TBMs that attacked dove in from 20K hitting over 520 mph.

400-450. 520 is foolish.

[Arlo]

                                      TBM STATS FOR BATTLE OF THE CORAL SEA

FRAME 1= TOTAL 32

KILLS=2
ASSISTS=6
KILLED=19
SAFE LAND=3
OBJ DEST=12
SHIPS SUNK=4

FRAME 2 TOTAL 34

KILLS=4
ASSISTS=7
KILLED=25
SAFE LAND=1
OBJ DEST=18
SHIPS SUNK=0

FRAME 3 TOTAL 37

KILLS=4
ASSISTS=0
KILLED=26
SAFE LAND=0
OBJ DEST=4
SHIPS SUNK=2

it actually appears to me as if the pilots of the avenger suffered pretty heavily in this setup.

Those are funny and unfair statistics, I've been told.

[Devil 505]

400-450. 520 is foolish.

Do you think I pulled 520 out of my ass? Look at the damn screenshot! It highlighted in red for the hearing impaired.

[perdue3]

                                      TBM STATS FOR BATTLE OF THE CORAL SEA

FRAME 1= TOTAL 32

KILLS=2
ASSISTS=6
KILLED=19
SAFE LAND=3
OBJ DEST=12
SHIPS SUNK=4

FRAME 2 TOTAL 34

KILLS=4
ASSISTS=7
KILLED=25
SAFE LAND=1
OBJ DEST=18
SHIPS SUNK=0

FRAME 3 TOTAL 37

KILLS=4
ASSISTS=0
KILLED=26
SAFE LAND=0
OBJ DEST=4
SHIPS SUNK=2

it actually appears to me as if the pilots of the avenger suffered pretty heavily in this setup.

Now find the B5N stats. The plane that actually belongs in this setup against proper fighters for this setup.

[Devil 505]

it actually appears to me as if the pilots of the avenger suffered pretty heavily in this setup.

They suffered AFTER they plowed through the defenders and sunk the ships.

[CAP1]

Now find the B5N stats. The plane that actually belongs in this setup against proper fighters for this setup.

                                             B5N STATS FOR BATTLE OF THE CORAL SEA

FRAME 1= TOTAL 45

KILLS=2
ASSISTS=3
KILLED=30
SAFE LAND=0
OBJ DEST=7
SHIPS SUNK=1

FRAME 2 TOTAL 40

KILLS=3
ASSISTS=5
KILLED=33
SAFE LAND=1
OBJ DEST=0
SHIPS SUNK=1

FRAME 3 TOTAL 55

KILLS=3
ASSISTS=1
KILLED=33
SAFE LAND=1
OBJ DEST=17
SHIPS SUNK=2

[CAP1]

                                             B5N STATS FOR BATTLE OF THE CORAL SEA

FRAME 1= TOTAL 45

KILLS=2
ASSISTS=3
KILLED=30
SAFE LAND=0
OBJ DEST=7
SHIPS SUNK=1

FRAME 2 TOTAL 40

KILLS=3
ASSISTS=5
KILLED=33
SAFE LAND=1
OBJ DEST=0
SHIPS SUNK=1

FRAME 3 TOTAL 55

KILLS=3
ASSISTS=1
KILLED=33
SAFE LAND=1
OBJ DEST=17
SHIPS SUNK=2

FRAME 1= TOTAL 32

KILLS=2
ASSISTS=6
KILLED=19
SAFE LAND=3
OBJ DEST=12
SHIPS SUNK=4

FRAME 2 TOTAL 34

KILLS=4
ASSISTS=7
KILLED=25
SAFE LAND=1
OBJ DEST=18
SHIPS SUNK=0

FRAME 3 TOTAL 37

KILLS=4
ASSISTS=0
KILLED=26
SAFE LAND=0
OBJ DEST=4
SHIPS SUNK=2

[perdue3]

                                              B5N STATS FOR BATTLE OF THE CORAL SEA

FRAME 1= TOTAL 45

KILLS=2
ASSISTS=3
KILLED=30
SAFE LAND=0
OBJ DEST=7
SHIPS SUNK=1

FRAME 2 TOTAL 40

KILLS=3
ASSISTS=5
KILLED=33
SAFE LAND=1
OBJ DEST=0
SHIPS SUNK=1

FRAME 3 TOTAL 55

KILLS=3
ASSISTS=1
KILLED=33
SAFE LAND=1
OBJ DEST=17
SHIPS SUNK=2

Your totals are wrong for Frame 3 and likely all of them. Frame 3 was a total of 33 B5N's.

[CAP1]

Your totals are wrong for Frame 3 and likely all of them. Frame 3 was a total of 33 B5N's.

straight from the logs.....


  # of A6M2 used     73
  # of B5N2 used     55
  # of D3A1 used     54
  # of Gunner-Observer used     27