Why, just why?

[Tank-Ace]

More likely out of business than small. Do you see how that could be a problem?

Doesn't mean the AH community should tolerate excessive picking and HOing and vulching. The "it's their $15" is the most damaging in the game, as it's an excuse to anything at all.

We set the tone for what is acceptable, and acceptance is tantamount to encouragement in this situation.

If I knew people did this to me when I was new I would have quit the game. It's probably just me but I want people to come at me with everything they've got! I like a challenge!  

Difference between giving it all you've got, and vulching, or diving in when you're already engaged 4v1 on the deck.

I'm not saying I want it Co E, guns cold, but I do want a reasonable chance to at least make a fight of things.

[Lusche]

Organized missions seem to change the nature of the beast. Not only does it add some order to the fight but it also brings teamwork, which tends to be the opposite of ho, vulch and horde.

Would more missions make a difference?

Not really, because if you run an organised mission with more than x players, it's just been seen as a horde by the enemy. After all, a horde in AH is just a 'huge' number of enemy planes in a sector. Nobody cares if they are in an organised mission or not.

remember the correct AH nomenclature:
#enemy > #friendlies    = horde
#friendlies > #enemies = teamwork

[Golden Dragon]

Like many have said it's just a game.  Why get even the slightest bit worked up about how someone chooses to play the game?  The people who play this way will most likely seek out better engagements as their skill and confidence grow.  It wasn't too long ago I met a fiery death at everyone's hands every time I merged with them.  Now I've had great fights, winning and losing against all of the Bish and Rooks I've tangled with.  This is an air combat simulation.  Lower your SA at your own peril.  You only have yourself to blame if one of these guys smokes you.   Keep an eye peeled for those diving ponies, occasionally I'm one of them and my aim is getting pretty good.  Fight's on. 

[Stampf]

Not really, because if you run an organised mission with more than x players, it's just been seen as a horde by the enemy. After all, a horde in AH is just a 'huge' number of enemy planes in a sector. Nobody cares if they are in an organised mission or not.

remember the correct AH nomenclature:
#enemy > #friendlies    = horde
#friendlies > #enemies = teamwork

While I sympathise totally with our grumpy sarcastic morning snail...

The nuts and bolt answer is also no...not in the current environment/world in the MA. Works great in closed events, I agree but too many places to hide and seek...too easy objectives...and ways to accomplish current goals without endangering onesself, and the more often discussed reasons of course too...

If you want to see large tooth and nail airbattles...

harden the hangers, and bring back meaningful fuel damage at the fields. 

Make it harder than a set of buffs a 110 and an goon to take a field.  Make it 20 times as hard and 20 times less fields.  Make everyone work together towards fewer harder goals.

Players should be encouraged to fly toward enemy dar bar...not away from it.

While I salute Earl for his mission across the map tonight...B-29's at 32K is never going to generate an airbattle.  Bring it down.

If having 3 countries where guys skirt around between them gaming eachother and avoiding a good long brawl at any cost...is somehow better than 2 countires that hate eachother and fight tooth and nail every day and night...then at least...shorten up the fronts and make the objectives harder.

 

[Lusche]

While I sympathise totally with our grumpy sarcastic morning snail...

Holy hell, is it morning already? 

If you want to see large tooth and nail airbattles...

harden the hangers, and bring back meaningful fuel damage at the fields. 

Make it harder than a set of buffs a 110 and an goon to take a field.  Make it 20 times as hard and 20 times less fields. 

Unfortunately, making captures much harder tends to increase hordes and the necessity of surprise raids. And if you make captures too hard past a certain point, many players will just stop trying to capture bases... and disappear.
We had that problem showing up in the early days of the new towns when there was no white flag and 100% had to be down. It was just too frustrating and many players were disgusted. We may like it or not, but that's the way it is.

In addition, reducing the number of bases to something like 3-4 per side will also greatly reduce gameplay opportunities and variation. Remember the "capture order" test several years ago, were only 6 bases were capturable at any given time? While that indeed created giant battles at times, it also totally limited actual gameplay to those, with little variation in combats.

Make everyone work together towards fewer harder goals.

Great in theory, especially when I'm looking at the dreadful off-hours numbers. But I very much doubt it will work that way

Players should be encouraged to fly toward enemy dar bar...not away from it.

Just making stuff harder doesn't give that encouragement either

[mthrockmor]

Not really, because if you run an organised mission with more than x players, it's just been seen as a horde by the enemy. After all, a horde in AH is just a 'huge' number of enemy planes in a sector. Nobody cares if they are in an organised mission or not.

What if there was a perk benefit to flying in missions? What if there were types of missions that corresponded to either time in flight/distance, target or number of sticks in mission. An example, an "epic" mission that hit strats with a mixed buff/escort would have a min and max and all involved sticks would get triple the perks. And maybe a mission like this could get an airstart to add incentive. You could have a category for a Navy strike; a V-base take with jabos, etc.

Some have expressed the idea of having a similar category for defending a base against a mission.

I am confident some incentives can be added that would drive behavior towards realism, and in so doing get away from the arcade.

boo

[Stampf]

Holy hell, is it morning already?  




Unfortunately, making captures much harder tends to increase hordes and the necessity of surprise raids. And if you make captures too hard past a certain point, many players will just stop trying to capture bases... and disappear.
We had that problem showing up in the early days of the new towns when there was no white flag and 100% had to be down. It was just too frustrating and many players were disgusted. We may like it or not, but that's the way it is.

In addition, reducing the number of bases to something like 3-4 per side will also greatly reduce gameplay opportunities and variation. Remember the "capture order" test several years ago, were only 6 bases were capturable at any given time? While that indeed created giant battles at times, it also totally limited actual gameplay to those, with little variation in combats.


Great in theory, especially when I'm looking at the dreadful off-hours numbers. But I very much doubt it will work that way

Just making stuff harder doesn't give that encouragement either

You are making me sad now too.  

Doesn't make much sense to me or seem right, but then again,

you are very small...you're probably right...

[BaldEagl]

Doesn't mean the AH community should tolerate excessive picking and HOing and vulching. The "it's their $15" is the most damaging in the game, as it's an excuse to anything at all.

We set the tone for what is acceptable, and acceptance is tantamount to encouragement in this situation.

Of please.  The same things have been going on since I started playing AW 17 years ago.  The same arguments against it have been made for those same 17 years and guess what?  Nothings changed.  What makes you think jumping on your high horse is going to change it after all these years?

Players progress at their own pace.  Some grow out of dweebery, some never do and some quit.

Do you think everyone telling a new guy he's playing the game wrong is going to make him want to stay?  Do you honstly think that him giving YOU a chance doesn't take away his own chance for a kill?

Stop trying to tell others how to play and just play the game for what it is.  If you go into the MA with any other expectation than anything and everything can happen you'll be severly dissapointed.

[Easyscor]

Wow Stampf, I had no idea we were so far apart on this.

I agree with every point Lusche made in his rebuttal, though I also agree that your items he didn't address have some merit.

Admittedly it's slightly off topic, but I bemoan the loss of history buffs in the game even though I hate lock step re-enactments of battles. It makes me sad that so many players come and go without apparently taking any interest in the historical context for which these aircraft were developed and used.

[Stampf]

Wow Stampf, I had no idea we were so far apart on this.

I agree with every point Lusche made in his rebuttal, though I also agree that your items he didn't address have some merit.

Admittedly it's slightly off topic, but I bemoan the loss of history buffs in the game even though I hate lock step re-enactments of battles. It makes me sad that so many players come and go without apparently taking any interest in the historical context for which these aircraft were developed and used.

I am at a loss as to what items we are so far apart on Easy? You like 3 countries...big maps...no fights...small population?  And maybe its just me but I did not take that reply as 'rebuttal'...just his thoughts from past experience.

And I don't think there are many larger History Buffs than me here...though I am at a loss about that comment too.

It late...it must be me.

[Easyscor]

I recognize you as a history buff too. I wasn't referring to you but my impression of the current in-game community in general.


Making base capture harder isn't the way to go imo but I know htc disagrees with me. More bases in a terrain with towns that are smaller and easier to capture would allow smaller groups of relatively new players to enjoy the excitement of success, or the illusion of potentiall easy success. And it would generate opposition from the enemy fairly quickly. Hence it would create a fight between a smaller initial group of players. I think that would be a good thing, but that's my opinion and apparently Lusche's as well. I usually don't bother trying to convince others but sometimes I see a thread like this and can't keep from posting. It wasn't meant to be an attack on you at all, I was just surprised by your position statement.

[SmokinLoon]

I'd be happy to help a new guy into the game, it such a shame i'm a terrible teacher

Anyone who has been around long enough should know three things:

First, the learning curve is ultimately never ending.  This is vital that the new player understands that this isn't Pac-Man.

Second, the only thing absolute in AH is the ground.  Self explanatory.

Three, the basics of E, turning, climbing, bombing, shooting, etc, can be taught by anyone.  We're speaking of the basics, not top tier ACM's.  Some of the worst professors I had in college has double Ph.D's, while the best professors didn't even have a doctorate. In most cases it is about *how* the information is delivered, not who is delivering it. You don't have to be an ace pilot or crack shot to be able to teach it.

ANYONE can teach everyone something. That is especially true for those of us who've playing playing awhile in helping the new guys who have no knowledge or experience at all.    

[Stampf]

I recognize you as a history buff too. I wasn't referring to you but my impression of the current in-game community in general.


Making base capture harder isn't the way to go imo but I know htc disagrees with me. More bases in a terrain with towns that are smaller and easier to capture would allow smaller groups of relatively new players to enjoy the excitement of success, or the illusion of potential easy success. And it would generate opposition from the enemy fairly quickly. Hence it would create a fight between a smaller initial group of players. I think that would be a good thing, but that's my opinion and apparently Lusche's as well. I usually don't bother trying to convince others but sometimes I see a thread like this and can't keep from posting. It wasn't meant to be an attack on you at all, I was just surprised by your position statement.

I think if a new guy logged in and 150 teammates all working together on a single or few objectives all said,

"Awesome! Welcome! Just in time!...hurry grab a heavy hellcat off CV101 and help us smash this town.  Careful coming in...enemy cap is still around 80 strong and they are putting up one hell of a fight!  Link up with as many navy birds as you can on the approach...there is safety in numbers.  More enemy high cap is due back in a few minutes so dont dilly dally.  Oh!  Enemy tank dudes have a firing line established on the far side of the target...about 30 strong flaks...careful down there!"

things would be better than...

...a new guy logging on...Silence...maybe a few sarcastic replies to his initial questions then getting mercilessly hammered by the vultch, laughed at by his 'teammates' or at best...offered the...

..."come with me and this guy to A101...we're gonna sneak it..."

This helps him learn nothing good imo.

I do see what we are apart on now.  TY for clarifying.  We are apart you are correct...but that is ok.

EDIT: I agree of course with your sentiment on the shrinking Historical based player base...but I think if the game encouraged it more by design...some young folks might show more interest.

[Citabria]

remember the correct AH nomenclature:
#enemy > #friendlies    = horde
#friendlies > #enemies = teamwork

Lusche, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to... depend greatly on our own point of view.

[Drane]

OMG....just remembered this loudmouthed bish player upping an A20 to bomb gv at the spawn. U know whoooo I'm talkin bout! Always trying to steal BIGPATs twinkies.

He got vulched like the example in this post. It was an awesome flaming explosion and the vulcher crashed into the runway. I think the vulcher hit him with rockets, bombs, and guns.

Tried desperately to hit the check 6 key but kept missing.

Well after getting vulched he launched into a tirade yelling at us on vox for no check 6. The whole thing was hilarious!

Had me laughing so hard I almost crashed. I'm laughing now.

This kind of stuff has been happening all through the years and will continue. Just try to have as much fun as you can.