Author Topic: solution for hordeing  (Read 1966 times)

Offline Triton28

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Re: solution for hordeing
« Reply #30 on: December 05, 2013, 12:45:46 PM »
ahh I like Junky so I stepped out of convo.....

I am gonna try to avoid getting angry....its not easy for me....but I didn't click "post" on the 1000 word response I had to him.....so I am getting better  :banana:

I just meant he's not very good at trolling and it's becoming a habit.  I mean, you're not supposed to make sure everyone knows you're just trolling if you want it to work.   :)
Fighting spirit one must have. Even if a man lacks some of the other qualifications, he can often make up for it in fighting spirit. -Robin Olds
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Offline Latrobe

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Re: solution for hordeing
« Reply #31 on: December 05, 2013, 01:14:36 PM »
I'm not quite sure why a lot of people are trying to find ways to make flying together more difficult. Is seeing a red plane really that terrifying? Next time you see a large red dar bar put the alert out on country and coordinate some fighters to go and kill it... unless I'm in the area then please go somewhere else, these are my red planes!  :P


I've always found a health dose of bullets to be the most effective way of breaking up these "hordes". :D After all, this game is about going towards the fights, not away from them. If you want to kill hordes then you are going to have to get your hands dirty.  :joystick:

Offline Arlo

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Re: solution for hordeing
« Reply #32 on: December 05, 2013, 01:18:08 PM »

Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: solution for hordeing
« Reply #33 on: December 05, 2013, 01:53:45 PM »
I'm not quite sure why a lot of people are trying to find ways to make flying together more difficult. Is seeing a red plane really that terrifying? Next time you see a large red dar bar put the alert out on country and coordinate some fighters to go and kill it... unless I'm in the area then please go somewhere else, these are my red planes!  :P


I've always found a health dose of bullets to be the most effective way of breaking up these "hordes". :D After all, this game is about going towards the fights, not away from them. If you want to kill hordes then you are going to have to get your hands dirty.  :joystick:


You act as though we've forgotten our fighters have guns. While red guys aren't scary (especially if they're bish or NOE lancs), the issue is that you can simply be overwhelmed strategically. You must remember that most people seem to play to "win teh warz  :joystick:!", and so keeping their base is more important than killing the lemmings.
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

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Offline puller

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Re: solution for hordeing
« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2013, 01:56:50 PM »
The horde is just a really good chance to get kills....why would anyone have a problem with this?....Yes your chances of dying in the horde environment are very high but oh well...there is a nice new plane waiting in the hanger with no holes in it and the windscreen is free from blood spatter... :devil
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Offline ink

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Re: solution for hordeing
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2013, 03:09:55 PM »
I'm not quite sure why a lot of people are trying to find ways to make flying together more difficult. Is seeing a red plane really that terrifying? Next time you see a large red dar bar put the alert out on country and coordinate some fighters to go and kill it... unless I'm in the area then please go somewhere else, these are my red planes!  :P


I've always found a health dose of bullets to be the most effective way of breaking up these "hordes". :D After all, this game is about going towards the fights, not away from them. If you want to kill hordes then you are going to have to get your hands dirty.  :joystick:

typed so perfectly it needs to be re-posted.....except the last part of the first paragraph...they are not your red cons they are mine :joystick:

Offline bustr

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Re: solution for hordeing
« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2013, 05:30:03 PM »
Hoards are this game's way of life. The arena has no rules or mechanisms imposed by a central authority or control. So the MA mirrors real life where groups contend against each other over what ever the reward of the moment is for them. In over a decade that fact hasn't changed. If anything the MA reminds me of the never ending slaughter fests the War Hammer 40,000 dice role game attempted to depict in it's side stories about the different contending species. Achieving goals was just as important as the mindless slaughter required to do it.

No one can come up with a solution to hoards(player conduct) without ultimately describing an imposed ridged central mechanism or Hitech holding a gun to your head forcing you to think "right thoughts". Punish paying customers for having fun not in a manner that pleases those who know the one right true way to play this game.

All of the evolutionary stages of hoards in this game over the last decade, describe a common theme of adapting and overcoming in a no rules environment. Hitech has changed system requirements and updated mechanisms to address the worst nature of hoards a number of times over the years. In the end, the hoards adapted and overcame the changes. We have been given "special arenas" ad naseam so those convinced they know the right true way to play the game can play their way with like minded followers. Instead, they stay in the MA and practice insanity by making the same complaints today about game play as they did ad naseam over this last decade. It's the hoards fault this game stinks.

You play in the no rules MA, you play against hoards. Or stop insulting paying customers and accept they want to play together as a group of "paying customers" because they find it achieves their short term needs for fun. It's not like Hitech is holding a gun to your heads so you can't "adapt and overcome" to their strategy to having fun in a game with no rules. Or you as a group leading them to learn a new way to play the game. But, we can't be bothered because that cuts down on our Oh so short nightly time to club baby seals and get our fix in the MA. Everybody invests in themselves but not our community. Then complains to Hitech when things don't turn out like their fantasies for Aces High game play. Kinda defines insanity.

If a member of those hoards complains in this forum how unfair it is to be slaughtered by the ACM sharks, he gets ridiculed for being a whiner by the ACM sharks. When said whiner gets 40 friends together and slaughters whole sectors, suddenly the ACM sharks need the game changed because of a serious problem in the game play mechanics. All of us die to superior numbers of unskilled whiners who took our kind forum observations to heart, then adapted and overcame. Just not the way we wanted them to so we could have more fun our way.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline kvuo75

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Re: solution for hordeing
« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2013, 05:37:42 PM »
I'm not quite sure why a lot of people are trying to find ways to make flying together more difficult. Is seeing a red plane really that terrifying?

apparently it is, that's why they fly together in hordes.

kvuo75

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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: solution for hordeing
« Reply #38 on: December 05, 2013, 05:42:45 PM »
I'm not quite sure why a lot of people are trying to find ways to make flying together more difficult. Is seeing a red plane really that terrifying? Next time you see a large red dar bar put the alert out on country and coordinate some fighters to go and kill it... unless I'm in the area then please go somewhere else, these are my red planes!  :P


Because they want to make it easier for themselves and don't want to make an effort to do what it takes to defend against a hoard attacking their base.  Like I said in another post, these types of players also whine...err complain about the lack of fights when the fight is staring them smack in the face but their tears and puffy eyes from crying has made them blind.

ack-ack
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Offline guncrasher

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Re: solution for hordeing
« Reply #39 on: December 05, 2013, 06:09:55 PM »

If a member of those hoards complains in this forum how unfair it is to be slaughtered by the ACM sharks, he gets ridiculed for being a whiner by the ACM sharks. When said whiner gets 40 friends together and slaughters whole sectors, suddenly the ACM sharks need the game changed because of a serious problem in the game play mechanics. All of us die to superior numbers of unskilled whiners who took our kind forum observations to heart, then adapted and overcame. Just not the way we wanted them to so we could have more fun our way.


so fricking true bustr.  lots of people will complain because nobody plays according to their own interpretation of the non-existing rules that we have in aces high.

I have been playing for over 7 years and there were hordes back then, even bigger than the ones we have now.  I remember many times upping with about 30 players going noe to a certain base only to find 30 enemy players in noe mission to attack our base.  that happen often and it was always funny.

hordes arent the problem  the problem is people forgetting hordes have been around for a long time.

from 2001:

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,1449.0.html

asking for bonues perks for fighting hordes

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,7402.msg97984.html#msg97984

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,7697.msg101711.html#msg101711

complaining that knights were sending 35-30 rooks at a time and cant defend against that.  about 5 messages down.  from 8/2000.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,10255.msg134828.html#msg134828

so I can post hundreds of threads complaining about hordes.  so I am gonna ask one more time. did the hordes became a problem recently?  or has it always been like that since day one?  

semp

you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline Arlo

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Re: solution for hordeing
« Reply #40 on: December 05, 2013, 09:59:47 PM »
did the hordes became a problem recently?  or has it always been like that since day one?[/font] [/color] 

semp



Day one.

Offline The Fugitive

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Re: solution for hordeing
« Reply #41 on: December 05, 2013, 10:04:08 PM »


so I can post hundreds of threads complaining about hordes.  so I am gonna ask one more time. did the hordes became a problem recently?  or has it always been like that since day one?  

semp



Hordes are NOT the problem. That it is becoming the ONLY mission people run IS the problem.

Back then you might get a horde now and then, but there was always other fights. Small missions, NOE's, CV battles, and furballs would pop up more often than a horde. Today you rarely see a good old fashion furball, mission almost never launch with out 25+ guys, CV battles end in minutes to dive bombing lancs. NOE's are still around, but when you only fly an hour or two here and there chasing them wastes a lot of time. If the game isn't going to keep "fun" as a lead action subscriptions will continue to fall.

Offline Tinkles

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Re: solution for hordeing
« Reply #42 on: December 05, 2013, 10:39:11 PM »
Hordes are NOT the problem. That it is becoming the ONLY mission people run IS the problem.

Back then you might get a horde now and then, but there was always other fights. Small missions, NOE's, CV battles, and furballs would pop up more often than a horde. Today you rarely see a good old fashion furball, mission almost never launch with out 25+ guys, CV battles end in minutes to dive bombing lancs. NOE's are still around, but when you only fly an hour or two here and there chasing them wastes a lot of time. If the game isn't going to keep "fun" as a lead action subscriptions will continue to fall.

The problem is to keep it "fun" is player motivated and player driven.  If the players aren't willing then it won't happen.

HTC can't really do anything without stepping on someones toes. Or playing the "God" piece of "You can't do diz nuh moar" type of thing.

While I would like to see some of the suggestions added in other posts that were originally there to add more difficulty for hordes.  I think the issue is the player mindset, and simply how it needs to change from "making it easier" to finding more diversity in gameplay.  Instead of taking p38s, make it interesting and take D3As or P40s w/ bombs.

Right now players are taking the easy road (not talking of everyone, just the "hoarders"), and take the biggest gun and easiest path.  Some take the harder one and the smaller/harder weapon for a more challenging and rewarding experience. Obviously, taking the easy road is more preferred, but is detrimental in the long run.


I think the best thing that can be done at this point is simply when a mission comes up and they want more than 10 guys, simply don't join.  I don't mind teamwork, but there is a fine line of being organized and being overpowering.
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Offline guncrasher

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Re: solution for hordeing
« Reply #43 on: December 05, 2013, 11:26:08 PM »
Hordes are NOT the problem. That it is becoming the ONLY mission people run IS the problem.

Back then you might get a horde now and then, but there was always other fights. Small missions, NOE's, CV battles, and furballs would pop up more often than a horde. Today you rarely see a good old fashion furball, mission almost never launch with out 25+ guys, CV battles end in minutes to dive bombing lancs. NOE's are still around, but when you only fly an hour or two here and there chasing them wastes a lot of time. If the game isn't going to keep "fun" as a lead action subscriptions will continue to fall.

found this thread, this guy mdjoe replied on it.  think it was implied that he was hording rooks and a few guys were stopping them.  not once was it disputed that the other guy was wrong implaying about the hording.  and you know what it means?  it means nothing other than two groups of people having fun and implying that they were better than the other.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,154263.0.html



semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline bustr

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Re: solution for hordeing
« Reply #44 on: December 06, 2013, 06:12:58 PM »
First I'm not advocating Hitech step in and force us to change our habits or delay our gratification with limiters on resources or timers limiting what and when we can up from a field.

After a decade we have evolved hoards into the ultimate blunt force win tool because they work. Along with this we hide in them and 25k on top of them because many of us don't want to be killed in the game at any cost. So we want to be with the 12-30 guys on top unabashedly raping the guys below trapped against the ground. Describes a lot of WW2 and the primary tactic that won fights. Or many battles through out history. Numbers and personal survival decided the fate of civilizations. It's obvious personal survival is more powerful than morality or sportsmanship in an anonymous setting.

Today we are at a confluence of numbers, evolution, and balkanization of player self identification across the three sides of our game. In the past when we fielded more players for longer prime times, most of this was  a non issue. There was an excess on all sides who didn't join the hoard in their country and created other types of action elsewhere on the maps. We had a diversity in play styles to entertain us for those willing to look. Looking means not willing to create it themselves. But, could find it and be happy with the game.

Today we appear to be top heavy with lookers and not creators of fun, action, combat or a diversity of them. I will suspect many of the first to move on to other games in the past few years were the creators. The creators were players or groups of players who others followed because they had become a name brand for fun and success whatever they were up to. Todays hoards have become telling in the lack of willingness to branch out in smaller numbers and risk personal failure or defeat as the cost of creating fun.

One might say we have been reduced over time to an unimaginative comfort rut with community leadership who values that comfort over risk. Now that we don't have excess numbers to muddy the optics.

Hoards as the only response to anything today is a symptom of players desperately looking for fun, and many with a low risk value. A few days ago at midnight pacific time I went to a field with a yakT to de-ack, alone it appeared when my countrymen failed to show up. The response was a small hoard to kill just me flying in with alt from another field. Granted, since hoards are the primary source of red guys today, also the main source of combat for those who don't have personal risk issues during prime time.

I don't believe Hitech is on the hook to change this. That has consequences often resulting in lost revenue if he try's to force customers to do anything. And at this time we need our community more than ever. And community is the solution to how hoards are used. Opposed to Hitech jacking everyone around and imposing limitations with consequences to our evenings fun while driving away our freinds.

I know that in knight land for the most part we are a cluster flop parade where it comes to organization. I suspect to a degree the balkanization by personality across the three countries accounts for that. So it's quit easy in this game for even low level organizational tendencies to leverage the hoard as a blunt force win tool. Especially with a hoard of willing lookers who have personal risk issues looking to be led to riskless victories.

Tuesday nights my squad POTW has it's squad night. We can get up to 20 pigs online for that every Tuesday night. But, my CO hates being part of a mindless hoard. So POTW goes where our hoard isn't and picks a fight. We load up a few bombs and make it obvious by breaking things we are there to play. Half the time we get a big hoard furball response. The other half the green robot hoard shows up and finishes off the field. So we go somewhere else and pick another fight to avoid our own country's hoard.

Squads can choose to avoid their own country's hoard tendencies and create fun somewhere else. Then move on when the hoard lings show up for a free lunch with no risk. Right now it looks like laziness is the rule, and wining at all costs specifically with the hoard lings as human waves is the easy risk free way to a fun evening. Squads have more influence on how this game is played and won't admit it. And are the reason hoards with all of their game destroying problems exist today. But, then who doesn't want to win especially if you are hiding in a hoard to cover your lazy approach to wining while teaching new players this is what Aces High is about when they go on to form their squads.

At least Hitech in the face of this laziness, can set the radar back to where it was in the NOE hoard days so we all go back to flying under 15k. And flipping maps faster.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.