Author Topic: How the hell do you do that? (Read 2159 times)

fats · « **Reply #30 on:** January 30, 2001, 04:06:00 PM »

HT,

Implement a colored halo over a/c that are experiencing connection problems to extent FEs start just guessing where the plane might be headed. I guess you are able to better quantify the conditions than me...so I won't even try to guess.

Next time folks see something that doesn't fit regular flying it can be visually confirmed that there was something with the net connection. Either the person flying the UFO or the person witnessing this UFO maneuver.

// fats

gatt · « **Reply #31 on:** January 30, 2001, 04:20:00 PM »

Mig,
I'm pretty sure of that and usually my connx is quite good. I seldom see warps in arena. Interesting thing ... no one of the famous F4U pilots is posting here. I think it is a way to gaming the game, every game has some. I dont know, I barely do basic ACM

Jedi,
you probably gave me the best reply

<S>!

[This message has been edited by gatt (edited 01-30-2001).]

Wanker · « **Reply #32 on:** January 30, 2001, 04:38:00 PM »

I have seen the "frozen plane in space" before, and I'm telling you, THIS IS NOT IT.

This is different. Everytime I've seen someone do this, there was no noticable warping or net burping. This was something more fluid.

LJK Raubvogel · « **Reply #33 on:** January 30, 2001, 04:42:00 PM »

I've seen the same thing, and only in the planes you mentioned. One minute, you are closing on them, the next they flip a 180 without losing E and coming HO at you. It seems like I always see their wings rock back and forth right before it happens too. I always just figured its those late-war anti-grav motors.

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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps

[This message has been edited by LJK Raubvogel (edited 01-30-2001).]

Nash · « **Reply #34 on:** January 30, 2001, 04:53:00 PM »

I uh... don't <COUGH> knowhatyou'retalkgabout.

Seriously though, I've never seen it, and I'll be damned if I know how to make big blue do it..... Or you'd see it a LOT more

Hangtime · « **Reply #35 on:** January 30, 2001, 05:23:00 PM »

I'm betting yer seeing a snap-wingover.. you'll never see a guy UNDER you pull this off.. it happens when you chase a guy UP.. he's above you, and you are closing the gap.

Suddenly he's comming right down your throat...

What he does is watch his airspeed and you seperation. Depends on plane type I'd guess but for the P51 the magic number is 140 indicated; over 1000 yards seperation. As he's slowing to this speed on his climb; he's putting out flaps and rolling left, as it hits 140; hard left rudder, full back stick; start cycling IN flaps. Wallah! Reversal; nose down and well inside the anticipated radius. He has completed the manuver with a good-10-15mph controllable airspeed to spare, accelerating quickly and can get a good guns line on YOU well before you can adjust to track him.

I use this manuver when the guy chasing me has dodged the first conventional rope-a-dope and on the second run-up has gotten a little closer to parity on the speed. It's an all or nothing move.. blow it; or if the guy comming up behind you is a good shot, yer toast. It's basicily a one-up; one-down HO, somebody's gonna get "'ol facefull"...

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Hang
1st/AG "Bishlanders" << Recruiting!!

Vulcan · « **Reply #36 on:** January 30, 2001, 05:25:00 PM »

I've seen it a few times - particularly with hogs.

Looks to be some sort of high speed stall with a rudder kick thrown in.

Its definitely not a net-connection issue.

airspro · « **Reply #37 on:** January 30, 2001, 05:31:00 PM »

I have before and my follow squadie airborg2 just seen it on AH the first time this weekend . He had a name for it too I might add . Said he sees it in FA quite a bit too , but didn't think they could do it here because of the "don't move your controls" message but he found out differant .

I sent him this link , maybe he will post on it ?

cheers spro

gatt · « **Reply #38 on:** January 30, 2001, 05:40:00 PM »

Hangtime,
I've never seen what I'm describing from Ponies. Never from 109s. Never from Spitfires or La5. From those a/c I expect normal wingovers and hammerheads. And usually I can spot their maneuver.

I'm talking about F4Us for the most part, then FWs, then Typhoons. And not when I'm chasing them up. It often happened flying level or in a shallow dive. It could be a mix of tail slide, quick roll and GOD knows what. Something absolutely different from a normal ACM for sure.

[This message has been edited by gatt (edited 01-30-2001).]

bloom25 · « **Reply #39 on:** January 30, 2001, 06:31:00 PM »

I had Torque do this to me a couple months ago when I was in an la5. He bounced me when I was rtb from about an 8 to 10k advantage. I did I hard left climbing turn to get him to miss his initial pass. He did a chandelle type manuver and came back down on me. I rolled on my back, pulled hard, and he went sailing by over my head. I then rolled back level and followed him on up. I was even slowly gaining on him. At 500 yds the f4u flipped over and we ended up in a HO. Needless to say an la5 does not win HOs with an F4u1c.

(I had it on film, but I've reformated and upgraded my computer since then. This was back in 1.03 or 1.04. I don't quite remember exactly.)

On my FE it looked just like his tail went straight up in the air and the nose came straight down.

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bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS

fats · « **Reply #40 on:** January 30, 2001, 08:13:00 PM »

So this maneuver happens when you follow someone nose up, their speed near stall? I thought it was something along the lines that you are following someone in a dive - 300 mph - and the suddenly spins the nose for a HO.

If it's that the enemy is flying near stall speed I wouldn't be surprised of all the strange stuff you see. WB P-38's flip-flop comes to mind. WB Bf 109 ( especially F-4 ) had quite wild charasteristics as well. Chances are some anomalities have crept in to the stall stuff for AH planes as well...

// fats

Jigster · « **Reply #41 on:** January 31, 2001, 01:17:00 AM »

If your not closer then 500 yrd (and most likely aren't if he's still breathing) and pull up into one of the better instantaneous turners (F4U's, N1K2, Zeke, P-51, P-38 to an extent) your only helping them get the nose around quicker.

While you pull your nose up on them, they are still coming full circle, at a lesser E state intially anyway. By the time you close the gap to firing range they will have their nose all the way over.

Best way to beat this instantaneous turn is to pull up on them, but not completely to where the gunsight stays on them.

As you pull vertical, maintain an angle. By the time they get the nose over, they will have missed the shot and be perfectly set up for a rope, if the zoom is continued from underneath them (intially underneath, anyway). A moderate G pull with a 180 degree roll, or a normal yoyo will put you right on their back side, if wanted, when passing through their max altitude for the instantaneous turn.

The F4U and N1K2 can pull off that 180 turn with very little E loss, so observation is key when zooming out, as impatience kills

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There is no escaping Murphy's Law!

33rd FW www.33rd.org

gatt · « **Reply #42 on:** January 31, 2001, 01:19:00 AM »

What Bloom is describing is a normal maneuver. Bf109 drivers do it very often. They drag you up, then hammerhead when you are near stall and then they come down firing.

I'm talking about a 180deg change of direction when the bogey is flying level or diving slightly.

hblair · « **Reply #43 on:** January 31, 2001, 01:36:00 AM »

Never seen it.

Suave1 · « **Reply #44 on:** January 31, 2001, 08:09:00 AM »

I'd like to hear from Manadew on this one, as I think I've seen him do this in typhoon once or twice . As you close on him his plane starts to wobble like he's fighting a stall then his plane looks like it departes into a spin maybe ? And then blamo, he's hauling bellybutton away from you in a completely different direction . I've also seen the thing where you're chasing an f4u then all of the sudden you notice that he's coming right at you, with not so much of a profile or sillouette change .