Author Topic: Yet Another Plea for Historical Gameplay  (Read 1839 times)

Offline Westy MOL

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Yet Another Plea for Historical Gameplay
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2001, 03:28:00 PM »
You cut off the part there where I included all planes with  "...or any other available plane choice"

 Westy

Offline CRASH

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Yet Another Plea for Historical Gameplay
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2001, 03:43:00 PM »
Like I've said in every post, just having a CT is not the answer, never was, we've known that for years. You need to consider my request in total, dont simply harp on the one thing you dont like because your afraid it might catch on. Sorry, thats the way I see it.  I have visions of a toddler refusing to eat his spinach.  " I dont like it"! "But you've never tried it, how do you know you dont like"?  "whaaaa...I just know I wont like it and you cant make me try it"!  :)
     So instead of picking up a mission to help out your country you'd simply assume that there wouldn't be anything posted to suit your tastes, not a fighter sweep, not an escorted buff raid, tank assault, rocket attack on nme train and shippping, carrier attack on the French coast....not even to just grab a ride and go kill....nuthin, just log off in disgust because you couldn't once again hop in your nik (or whatever, insert favorite plane here) and romp around like you've been doing for countless hours already....no change of pace...same 'ol thing.  Sorry to hear it.

CRASH

 
Quote
Originally posted by SWulfe:
When the CT first came out, there were about 40 people in there.

Still 120-130ppl in the MA.

They saw the numbers in the CT, they obviously disregarded it and went to the MA because that's what they find fun.

The only way you are going to get 100+ people in the CT is going to force people to fly in it, and even then I bet you'll only get 50 people... the rest will log off, I know I would.
-SW

Offline AKSWulfe

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Yet Another Plea for Historical Gameplay
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2001, 03:53:00 PM »
Oh, I'm sorry... I forgot that I actually have fun in the MA.

You want a CT? Hey! WarBirds has one of those things up 24/7 and it's the only one people fly in... go there!

I know how WWII turned out, and when I want a taste of a real mission or what a REAL battle in WWII would of been like- I go for scenarios.

Anything else is simply a half-assed gamey revision to suit those who want a "historical" furball because they can't figure out how to get their Pee51 or F*ckingWhine190 to kill a Spitfire.
-SW

Offline Furious

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« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2001, 03:57:00 PM »
"herd mentality"....lol

this is a democracy, folks vote on which arena they prefer with thier time.

We need to stop trying to make the MA into a CT or HA. Its sole purpose is fun, and it is.

Now, I am all for making the CT a fun and historic arena, however some consessions need to be made to fit within the AH paradigm and the fact that few (20-30) folks will ever be preset in there at time. (I am an optomist). First, let me say that the idea of historical adversary furball will hold the players interest only for so long, as we have seen. We need goals. Here is what I think...

1. to simulate the number of planes present during the BoB, or other areas of conflict, we need AI pilots.

2. the AI pilots are sent on missions on a fairly regular schedule and these missions are announced to the friendly side. These can be player missions or scripted.

3. the mission types available should roll with the plane set.

4. scoring should be kept on how well an attack is carried out or repelled. (ie. factories destroyed vs. enemy craft defeated)

5. effective attacks, or defenses, should have an effect on the enemies ability to wage war. (ie. fuel, loadout, aircraft availability, etc.)

I imagine it would be fun to escort a flight of 30-40 Ju87's on a mission to attack the docks south of London.

F.

[ 10-23-2001: Message edited by: Furious ]

Offline Zippatuh

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Yet Another Plea for Historical Gameplay
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2001, 04:20:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by CRASH:
I have visions of a toddler refusing to eat his spinach.  " I dont like it"! "But you've never tried it, how do you know you dont like"?  "whaaaa...I just know I wont like it and you cant make me try it"!  

...just log off in disgust because you couldn't once again hop in your nik (or whatever, insert favorite plane here) and romp around like you've been doing for countless hours already....

CRASH

 

Or, the other argument, I don’t think its broke so why are you trying to fix it?

And yes, if I wanna “romp” around like I have been for countless hours what problem should you have with it?

Ohhh, I think I’m starting to get it now.  If I don’t think, fly, or follow your ideas I obviously have a problem.  If you want historical flying over a weekend take the time to plan for the scenarios.  Just because your RL obligations get in the way of that doesn’t fairly allow for an entire 48 hour period to be devoted to a HA so you can show up at any time.  Waaaaa, back at ya.


Zippatuh

Offline Karaya

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Yet Another Plea for Historical Gameplay
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2001, 04:30:00 PM »
Some excellent points made by all.

There has been a historical arena since the early days of Warbirds. On the weekends it did do well but most of the time pilots wanted to fly in an arena with hundreds of peoples not just 10 or 20.

While I too quest for a historical arena, fact is most people want to fly the hot birds. Sure, I do get frustrated when my bird is a 109G2 and it encounters an uber plane. But the revenge is sweet when a squaddie logs on and we beat the piss out of the uber birds in our pre-historic crates it become all the worth while.

As Everquest showed some of us... an online game needs to be all things to all people.
Pay attention to one group and you will loose the other players. AH is a wonderful game that has quite a future. Maybe oneday when money is a little more free they can put up a historical arena so we can all get our fix.

hals und beinbrech

Offline CRASH

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Yet Another Plea for Historical Gameplay
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2001, 04:53:00 PM »
hehehe...the "waa back at ya is pretty funny  :)  
     I don't necessarily think it's broke for most people, but it has the potential to be way better in my view.  I know it's broke for me and most of my squad but we've been doing this for a looooong time so thats probably alot of the reason.  I've been away during the week for most of the last 4 months and home on some weekends. Even when I get home and have game time I'll log into ah for like 15 or 20 minutes and get totally bored and end up going to play WWII Online just because it's different...now how sad is that?  Now judging from my own experiences and from those I hear from other ah players I'd have to say that its just getting boring for many of us.  Generally it seems that what happens is they dont make a big deal about it getting boring they just dont play anymore and pretty soon they let their subscription lapse and thats it.  I'm advocating this idea because I think that most people dont get to the scenario's because of the reason's I've stated earlier but would really have a blast if they did.  I firmly believe that most AH players, not all, but most would really enjoy something like this one weekend a month.  One thing's for sure, unless HT decides to make it happen it'll never change.  Hell, the CT's nothin but an ma minus the strat and hindered by a limited plane set....whats the point? I dont even fly it.
      We keep centering the argument around hardware, and it's not about hardware, it's about organized play, missions that mean something, discernable progress made by your efforts.  Hell, we could do all of this and not limit the planeset, just use a two sided historical map.  I'd like to see the two sides limited to axis and allied planes respecitvely, but all late models none the less, to keep some kind of perspective.
     So in short we'd have a two sided historical map, late model a/c but limited as to side and co's on during prime time to post missions and help guide the war effort.  That'd work for me.    
   

 
Quote
Originally posted by Zippatuh:


Or, the other argument, I don’t think its broke so why are you trying to fix it?

And yes, if I wanna “romp” around like I have been for countless hours what problem should you have with it?

Ohhh, I think I’m starting to get it now.  If I don’t think, fly, or follow your ideas I obviously have a problem.  If you want historical flying over a weekend take the time to plan for the scenarios.  Just because your RL obligations get in the way of that doesn’t fairly allow for an entire 48 hour period to be devoted to a HA so you can show up at any time.  Waaaaa, back at ya.


Zippatuh

Offline Vulcan

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Yet Another Plea for Historical Gameplay
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2001, 05:00:00 PM »
First question - Crash are you flying in ToD?

I like the MA, certainly its not perfect. Howeverr, things are changing. We have a bone fide strategy system - kind of unique among its competitors. HTC are slowly tweaking it to the right balance. Look back a year and a half and field capture was barely implemented.

Do I want a historical arena forced upon me? No! Why? Because as much as its been argued about the hordes of nikis/spits/la7s in the MA I could only imagine the boredom of seeing nothing but G-10s and Doras in an HA. I enjoy taking on a plane thats 'technically superior' to what I'm flying. Its more of a challege.

Do I want a mission based HA forced upon me? HELL NO! Why... because little Napoleons, like you, would end forever blasted the country channel with orders. I don't logon to be someone elses squeak.

Look at WW2OL, HA, mission based (apparently now). Go read their BBS, look at the "Axis outnumbers allies all day" whines, or the "I can't spawn this unless I join General Ihaveabignoodle's Missions".

I like the way AH is going, HTC are continually developing, tweaking, adding. If you're not enjoying it maybe its time to take a wee break.

Offline hitech

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Yet Another Plea for Historical Gameplay
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2001, 05:18:00 PM »
A alternative arena format wether mission based or other options is somthing we consider.

To close the main arena just to force people to try somthing different is a realy bad idea.


HiTech

Offline Furious

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Yet Another Plea for Historical Gameplay
« Reply #24 on: October 23, 2001, 05:23:00 PM »
Bravo HT,

Please, please tell us more about your ideas for alternative arenas.

F.

Offline Sancho

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Yet Another Plea for Historical Gameplay
« Reply #25 on: October 23, 2001, 07:23:00 PM »
If you want good historical matchups NOW, fly in Tour of Duty.

Offline llbm_MOL

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Yet Another Plea for Historical Gameplay
« Reply #26 on: October 23, 2001, 07:46:00 PM »
Here's something to try :)

A Marine pilot wrote this and posted it to the MOL mail list. He's also a squaddie :) So if you REALLY want a realistic time in AH try this first before you bemoan the constant furball in the MA. If you can do this while flying in the MA............YOU DA MAN!!!!!!!!

LLB OUT!!!!! look below.......


Gentlemen,


If you're interested in a simulation of the combat flight environment, you would
be much better off by buying yourself a surplus flight helmet and mask
(preferably one that doesn't fit perfectly and has been puked into), a sun lamp
(to get your head nice and toasty), and a pair of Nomex/leather flight gloves
(soak `em with sweat/oil/hydraulic fluid for that crisp but slick feel).


Put your monitor a little above coffee table height. Get about 4-5 of those
concrete slabs you see at the garden section of your local K-Mart, top'em with
the thinnest cheap cushion you can find. (That's your "ejection seat"). Wipe the
mask out with denatured alcohol (smells nice), and clamp a rag soaked in JP-4 or
kerosene on the end of the oxygen hose, and strap that puppy on 'till it leaves
a ring on your face that lasts for hours. (You do this 'cuz when your face is
sweaty and you're pulling G's, the mask will be on your chin if it isn't on
TIGHT.) Turn the sun lamp on and point it at your head.


Now you're doing it like the big boys! Optional "realism" techniques:
Buy some heavy duty nylon webbing (the kind you use to repair old-fashioned lawn
chairs with). Cut two straps of this and wrap them between your legs TIGHTLY
until they leave bruises on your butt (that's your `chute harness).


Play when you've got a BAD hangover. (Rough night at the O Club.)
Have your ex-wife/girl friend/idiot neighbor pester you with questions out of
the Owner's Manual (your pretend "Dash One") while you're trying to fly (can you
say; Check Ride!) Get up and play at 3:30 AM (otherwise known as "zero-dark
thirty"). Make a cheese sandwich, wrap it in waxed paper. Stick it in a shoe box
with a half-pint of milk, a bruised apple, a crushed bag of Fritos, and an
onion. Put it in the fridge overnight, then take it out, throw out the onion,
put the box under the sunlamp while you're flying, and eat when you're hungry.
(USN Box lunch.)


With some imagination and very little cash outlay, you can do a hell of a job
simulating what it's like to fly. That other toejam (side consoles, switches,
speakers, etc.) is strictly for show, and doesn't do anything towards giving you
that "There I wuz" feeling.

Offline Wardog

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Yet Another Plea for Historical Gameplay
« Reply #27 on: October 24, 2001, 01:56:00 AM »
Would prefer the RPS in the MA on the large map. I had no problem with this setup in WBs. It forces up to fly planes we dont normally fly. But the fact is, you just wont see the numbers in a CT 2 sided RPS arena.

Something needs to be done with the MA, but we still need some early fighters anyway. P39 comes to mind, Lagg3 and a few more variants of the Zeke. So much to be done and all the time in the world to do it in  :)

Dog out............

Offline sling322

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Yet Another Plea for Historical Gameplay
« Reply #28 on: October 24, 2001, 02:44:00 AM »
No thanks....if I want Historical gameplay, I do the TOD or other special events.  Face it fellas...the MA is the MA and no matter how much you dont like it, its never gonna be anything else.  The place for the historical matchups is the special events.

Offline deSelys

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Yet Another Plea for Historical Gameplay
« Reply #29 on: October 24, 2001, 03:37:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by hitech:
A alternative arena format wether mission based or other options is somthing we consider.

This would be the X-mas present for me. And although I didn't liked the idea at first, I think AI bombers would be the solution to boost up the numbers...
Current ID: Romanov

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