Author Topic: 72-75inches Pony  (Read 5879 times)

Offline shift8

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 193
Re: 72-75inches Pony
« Reply #90 on: September 05, 2014, 10:54:58 AM »
@shift8:
where are you going with this? Do you really wish that HTC makes AH into the "last day of WWII" combat simulator?
I sure as hell don't!


A june 44 boost mod is not the last day of the war. Its about a year. Also, if you consider things on that date or beyond "last day" then we should remove the K4, D9, Ta152, La7, G-14, F4U-4, P-47 D40/M etc.

Offline Xavier

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 249
Re: 72-75inches Pony
« Reply #91 on: September 05, 2014, 11:07:17 AM »
if you consider things on that date or beyond "last day" then we should remove the K4, D9, Ta152, La7, G-14, F4U-4, P-47 D40/M etc.

 :lol
Started from the bottom...still at the bottom.

Offline Zoney

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6503
Re: 72-75inches Pony
« Reply #92 on: September 05, 2014, 11:13:21 AM »
-1

on your wish sir.

This is simply a self serving wish with very little to back it up and a negative impact on balanced gameplay.
Wag more, bark less.

Offline bozon

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6037
Re: 72-75inches Pony
« Reply #93 on: September 05, 2014, 02:34:15 PM »
A june 44 boost mod is not the last day of the war. Its about a year. Also, if you consider things on that date or beyond "last day" then we should remove the K4, D9, Ta152, La7, G-14, F4U-4, P-47 D40/M etc.
June 1944 is not special. Why shouldn't all planes be modeled according to the latest and greatest field mods?
I'll save you the trouble, it was a rhetorical question anyway - because the game will suck!
Mosquito VI - twice the spitfire, four times the ENY.

Click!>> "So, you want to fly the wooden wonder" - <<click!
the almost incomplete and not entirely inaccurate guide to the AH Mosquito.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGOWswdzGQs

Offline jolly22

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1587
Re: 72-75inches Pony
« Reply #94 on: September 05, 2014, 04:53:12 PM »
I don't agree with not adding another pony because it's too popular already. It's one of the most commonly known fighter in WW2 by Americans. I'd say adding a perked pony plane is a great idea.

+1 to this.

3./JG 53 cheerleader - Battle Over The Winter Line - FLY AXIS - JRjolly

Offline The Fugitive

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17700
      • Fugi's Aces Help
Re: 72-75inches Pony
« Reply #95 on: September 05, 2014, 06:23:33 PM »
-1

on your wish sir.

This is simply a self serving wish with very little to back it up and a negative impact on balanced gameplay.

I think this is the part the OP hasn't taken in to consideration. I'm HTC has see or heard of every bit of info the OP has posted. As stated by many most of this stuff has been hashed out over and over through the years. HTC has to try and maintain a BALANCE in the game as it is a game and not a war where each side strives for some upper hand that can over balance the other.

Should it ever come to pass, it surely would be perked enough to make it such an easy option to use.

Offline Guppy35

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 20385
Re: 72-75inches Pony
« Reply #96 on: September 05, 2014, 09:35:59 PM »
Showing off labels in museums etc has nothing to do with the fuel grades that were actually used. There is a overwhelming amount of doumentation about this, quite a bit of which I already posted. 150grade, and the boost settings associated were standard as of June 1944. The eight airforce certainly converted over and the authorization to do so was USAAF wide. More can be read here:

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/150grade/150-grade-fuel.html

In Addition:

"A decision was made in May 1944 to have ALL fighter units supplied with this fuel no later than 1 June. As of that date operations with this fuel continued until approximately 1 February 1945 when all fighter units switched to “Pep” (100/150 plus 1.5 T’s ethylene dibromide). As of 1 April 1945 all units switched back to 100/150 fuel containing 1.0 T ethylene dibromide."    Emphasis Mine.

"The Production Division was directed on 28 March 1944, under the authority of the Commmanding General, Army Air Forces, to modify all P-38, P-47 and P-51 airplanes in the United Kingdom for the use of Grade 150 fuel, with the necessary modification kits to be shipped to the European Theater of Operations within 30 days. 23   It was decided that Grade 150 fuel was to be the only fuel available for AAF fighter airplanes in the United Kingdom. 24 "

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/150grade/Project_PPF_4april44.jpg



You claim it's standard.  I'm saying that despite the words on paper it was never 'standard'  the 9th AF never got any.  Not all of the 8th got it.  I posted the 479th bird to show a late 44 bird not updated to 150 octane.  I showed the restored combat surviving 51D to picture the Data block more clearly for you on a Mustang.  How many more images of 8th AF Mustangs showing no change to the Octane would you like to see?  No one is arguing that 150 Octane was not used.

You claim it as 'Standard'.  It was not "Standard" for the Mustang in WW2.  Suggesting some use by 8th Mustangs late in the war hardly covers the 'standard' for the WW2 Mustang in 44-45.  As has been mentioned, there has to be some sort of balance in the game.

I get it.  You want to go faster in a 51.  It would serve absolutely no purpose to add 150 octane fuel just to up the 51s performance other than to let you go faster.  As I said before.  If you can't make it in the 51 we have, all the cartoon 150 octane in the world isn't going to help you.



Dan/CorkyJr
8th FS "Headhunters

Offline PJ_Godzilla

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2661
Re: 72-75inches Pony
« Reply #97 on: September 05, 2014, 10:10:23 PM »
Hey, I want a p-39n with a big red star and 70" of boost so that I can come here an' shakes mah boo-tay about it...


Woo-hoo, I is oooo-ber  :banana:...
Some say revenge is a dish best served cold. I say it's usually best served hot, chunky, and foaming. Eventually, you will all die in my vengeance vomit firestorm.

Offline earl1937

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2290
Re: 72-75inches Pony
« Reply #98 on: September 06, 2014, 06:09:03 AM »
You claim it's standard.  I'm saying that despite the words on paper it was never 'standard'  the 9th AF never got any.  Not all of the 8th got it.  I posted the 479th bird to show a late 44 bird not updated to 150 octane.  I showed the restored combat surviving 51D to picture the Data block more clearly for you on a Mustang.  How many more images of 8th AF Mustangs showing no change to the Octane would you like to see?  No one is arguing that 150 Octane was not used.

You claim it as 'Standard'.  It was not "Standard" for the Mustang in WW2.  Suggesting some use by 8th Mustangs late in the war hardly covers the 'standard' for the WW2 Mustang in 44-45.  As has been mentioned, there has to be some sort of balance in the game.

I get it.  You want to go faster in a 51.  It would serve absolutely no purpose to add 150 octane fuel just to up the 51s performance other than to let you go faster.  As I said before.  If you can't make it in the 51 we have, all the cartoon 150 octane in the world isn't going to help you.




:banana: Amen!!!!
Blue Skies and wind at my back and wish that for all!!!

Offline save

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2830
Re: 72-75inches Pony
« Reply #99 on: September 06, 2014, 06:55:59 PM »
All A8's could use R4m from late 1944, all A8's could easy be converted to a Sturmbock that where close to impregnable to .50 cal from front
 (think HO without penalty for the A8 against Pony without the 20mm option many pony drivers dream of), they could use GM-1 system, and converted A8 could have 2400hp (effectively A8 converted to A9)
The list would be infinite long for each German plane subtype, and Mossie fan's have their list of options, B29 .... n u k e s. The list go on and on.

Bombing bombers with fused bombs they did IRL is another option I do not want to see in AH.

My ammo last for 6 Lancasters, or one Yak3.
"And the Yak 3 ,aka the "flying Yamato"..."
-Caldera

Offline shift8

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 193
Re: 72-75inches Pony
« Reply #100 on: September 06, 2014, 10:59:49 PM »
You claim it's standard.  I'm saying that despite the words on paper it was never 'standard'  the 9th AF never got any.  Not all of the 8th got it.  I posted the 479th bird to show a late 44 bird not updated to 150 octane.  I showed the restored combat surviving 51D to picture the Data block more clearly for you on a Mustang.  How many more images of 8th AF Mustangs showing no change to the Octane would you like to see?  No one is arguing that 150 Octane was not used.

You claim it as 'Standard'.  It was not "Standard" for the Mustang in WW2.  Suggesting some use by 8th Mustangs late in the war hardly covers the 'standard' for the WW2 Mustang in 44-45.  As has been mentioned, there has to be some sort of balance in the game.

I get it.  You want to go faster in a 51.  It would serve absolutely no purpose to add 150 octane fuel just to up the 51s performance other than to let you go faster.  As I said before.  If you can't make it in the 51 we have, all the cartoon 150 octane in the world isn't going to help you.





So you obviously have no idea what you are talking about. There are record of the aviation fuel production and delivery to units. It was only fuel being used 8th from mid june and beyond. The 9th DID receive the fuel. Do you really think that the stamp on the side of planes means anything? Go do a bit of research and you will find BF109 units with C3 fuel icon painted on planes whose squadrons were not receiving the fuel. The eight air-force published documentation talking about their use of fuel and their experience with it, and that document is posted in this thread. The Decision was made to deplete all stocks 100/130 before they used 150grade.

150 Grade fuel was the only fuel grade available to American units operating in England from mid 44 till wars end. That encompasses a MASSIVE chunk of all operational P-51s. It is certainly just as many if not more than all the 109K4's and FW190D9 operating in the same period. Furthermore, Not all D9's had MW even installed, much less available to them. Not all 109s capable of MW50 use received the additive. So I guess that should be removed too? Not all P-47s were D-40's....etc.

"Technical Operations, Eighth Air Force issued a 4 April 1945 memorandum in which 100/150 grade fuel experience in the Eighth Air Force was summarized. It is reproduced in full below:

            1.   The following is a summary of 100/150 grade fuel experience in Eighth Air Force.
            2.   a.   This fuel was first service tested by Technical Operations Section, this headquarters, in October 1943, said service test lasting through until March 1944, at which time it was recommended that if extra performance from P-38, P-47 and P-51 aircraft was desired it could be secured by the use of this fuel. It was pointed out at that time that the only apparent deleterious effect of this fuel on any one of the three types was the extra lead fouling of spark plugs.

                  b.   A decision was made in May 1944 to have all fighter units supplied with this fuel no later than 1 June. As of that date operations with this fuel continued until approximately 1 February 1945 when all fighter units switched to “Pep” (100/150 plus 1.5 T’s ethylene dibromide). As of 1 April 1945 all units switched back to 100/150 fuel containing 1.0 T ethylene dibromide."

Fuel consumption: http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/150grade/Consumption_150_Grade_fuel_Barrels.html

Fuel Production vs Requirment: http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/150grade/100-150_Grade_Supply_23Nov44.pdf



« Last Edit: September 06, 2014, 11:22:47 PM by shift8 »

Offline shift8

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 193
Re: 72-75inches Pony
« Reply #101 on: September 06, 2014, 11:01:54 PM »
All A8's could use R4m from late 1944, all A8's could easy be converted to a Sturmbock that where close to impregnable to .50 cal from front
 (think HO without penalty for the A8 against Pony without the 20mm option many pony drivers dream of), they could use GM-1 system, and converted A8 could have 2400hp (effectively A8 converted to A9)
The list would be infinite long for each German plane subtype, and Mossie fan's have their list of options, B29 .... n u k e s. The list go on and on.

Bombing bombers with fused bombs they did IRL is another option I do not want to see in AH.



Right then. So HTC should never add another plane then because not every plane can be added right? Regarding mods, why not take MW50 off the German planes.....cuz you cant add every single mode ever fitting to a plane.

Offline Guppy35

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 20385
Re: 72-75inches Pony
« Reply #102 on: September 06, 2014, 11:43:41 PM »
So help me out here.  You clearly have all the answers and since you are convinced you have the answer there isnt much point in discussing it.  That being said you have failed to answer the important question.

Why do you believe we need it in Aces High?  What will it allow you to do that you can't do with the Mustang we have modeled?  How will in benefit the game?

Dan/CorkyJr
8th FS "Headhunters

Offline morfiend

  • AH Training Corps
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10400
Re: 72-75inches Pony
« Reply #103 on: September 06, 2014, 11:46:02 PM »
So you obviously have no idea what you are talking about. There are record of the aviation fuel production and delivery to units. It was only fuel being used 8th from mid june and beyond. The 9th DID receive the fuel. Do you really think that the stamp on the side of planes means anything? Go do a bit of research and you will find BF109 units with C3 fuel icon painted on planes whose squadrons were not receiving the fuel. The eight air-force published documentation talking about their use of fuel and their experience with it, and that document is posted in this thread. The Decision was made to deplete all stocks 100/130 before they used 150grade.

150 Grade fuel was the only fuel grade available to American units operating in England from mid 44 till wars end. That encompasses a MASSIVE chunk of all operational P-51s. It is certainly just as many if not more than all the 109K4's and FW190D9 operating in the same period. Furthermore, Not all D9's had MW even installed, much less available to them. Not all 109s capable of MW50 use received the additive. So I guess that should be removed too? Not all P-47s were D-40's....etc.

"Technical Operations, Eighth Air Force issued a 4 April 1945 memorandum in which 100/150 grade fuel experience in the Eighth Air Force was summarized. It is reproduced in full below:

            1.   The following is a summary of 100/150 grade fuel experience in Eighth Air Force.
            2.   a.   This fuel was first service tested by Technical Operations Section, this headquarters, in October 1943, said service test lasting through until March 1944, at which time it was recommended that if extra performance from P-38, P-47 and P-51 aircraft was desired it could be secured by the use of this fuel. It was pointed out at that time that the only apparent deleterious effect of this fuel on any one of the three types was the extra lead fouling of spark plugs.

                  b.   A decision was made in May 1944 to have all fighter units supplied with this fuel no later than 1 June. As of that date operations with this fuel continued until approximately 1 February 1945 when all fighter units switched to “Pep” (100/150 plus 1.5 T’s ethylene dibromide). As of 1 April 1945 all units switched back to 100/150 fuel containing 1.0 T ethylene dibromide."

Fuel consumption: http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/150grade/Consumption_150_Grade_fuel_Barrels.html

Fuel Production vs Requirment: http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/150grade/100-150_Grade_Supply_23Nov44.pdf






  I'm sorry but you're barking up the wrong tree!

  Guppy has done the research,his stuff is all over the net. Infact you can find pix of "guppy" at a few pilot reunions as he did his "research"......

  My reference to 72 inches being too tall to be a pony was really a reference to beating a dead horse....  search the forums from days of past to see just how many times this exact argument has come up.


  Could say much more but it's not worth the effort,you obviously dont know who you were addressing!


    :salute

Offline The Fugitive

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17700
      • Fugi's Aces Help
Re: 72-75inches Pony
« Reply #104 on: September 07, 2014, 10:23:49 AM »
So help me out here.  You clearly have all the answers and since you are convinced you have the answer there isnt much point in discussing it.  That being said you have failed to answer the important question.

Why do you believe we need it in Aces High?  What will it allow you to do that you can't do with the Mustang we have modeled?  How will in benefit the game?



Dan I'd be happy to see if HE could post one picture of a data block WITH 150 octane on it.  :devil