72-75inches Pony

[Ack-Ack]

There was once a "next plane" poll that had the P-51H on it, or so I hear.

That surprised me seeing the option to vote for the P-51H in the airplane poll a few years ago, especially since it never saw any combat in its life time.

ack-ack

[10thmd]

How can we trust a member who Feels the need to hide who he is...............

[Ack-Ack]

Or are you also going to claim that the F-86 is ten times better than the Mig 15?

The F-86E was better than the MiG-15.

ack-ack

[Scherf]

This thread has become very deep.

[Guppy35]

It's absolutely amazing to me how we beat the same discussions to death over and over again.

Shift8, I'd suggest you search the Aircraft & Vehicles section on the 150 Octane fuel debate.  We've done it to death.

I'm a Mustang fan along with Spits etc.  If you can't survive AH with the Spits or Mustangs we have, 150 octane fuel isn't going to make a bit of difference.  How much it was used by the 8th or the RAF is open for debate.  I'm as history minded as anyone here.  That being said, using the history argument to hide your desire for a more uber Mustang isn't working very well.

[shift8]

How can we trust a member who Feels the need to hide who he is...............

Nice Deflection. My in game name has nothing to do with this debate---period. IF I gave it to you I could easily just be lying, and if it was the real one, what would that achieve? Youd just know another alias I go by. Everyone on these forums is going by an alias.

[shift8]

It's absolutely amazing to me how we beat the same discussions to death over and over again.

Shift8, I'd suggest you search the Aircraft & Vehicles section on the 150 Octane fuel debate.  We've done it to death.

I'm a Mustang fan along with Spits etc.  If you can't survive AH with the Spits or Mustangs we have, 150 octane fuel isn't going to make a bit of difference.  How much it was used by the 8th or the RAF is open for debate.  I'm as history minded as anyone here.  That being said, using the history argument to hide your desire for a more uber Mustang isn't working very well.

Just because I think a 51 should get 150 because it had it in real life doesn't mean I dont know how to fly. Ive been flying for about a decade in various sims. I fly the current plane just fine thank you, and I find it most effective. Once again, I see that when we dont have any real arguments we resort to assuming motive or incompetence on the part of the OP.

[shift8]

The F-86E was better than the MiG-15.

ack-ack

Perhaps. This is a debate for another thread. However, the KDR of the plane is by itself not license to ignore the stats of the plane or the conditions it fought it. The neither the Mig or Sabre was 10 times better than the other.

[Karnak]

Just because I think a 51 should get 150 because it had it in real life doesn't mean I dont know how to fly. Ive been flying for about a decade in various sims. I fly the current plane just fine thank you, and I find it most effective. Once again, I see that when we dont have any real arguments we resort to assuming motive or incompetence on the part of the OP.

One can also argue that the P-51 should get 100 octane because it had it in real life.  It is a choice and HTC chose to make it with 100 octane.

A P-51D on 150 octane would need to be perked, and I am not at all sure that the market would bear the P-51D being perked.

[Guppy35]

Just because I think a 51 should get 150 because it had it in real life doesn't mean I dont know how to fly. Ive been flying for about a decade in various sims. I fly the current plane just fine thank you, and I find it most effective. Once again, I see that when we dont have any real arguments we resort to assuming motive or incompetence on the part of the OP.

I'm not sure how you define real arguments.  You claim that 150 Octane fuel was "standard" in the 8th AF.  When?  Show me the modified Mustang data blocks where they changed the octane number from the standard 100/130.   

This is the 'standard' 51 Data Block.



This 'standard' data block is on a 479th FG P51D in the late Fall of 44.  I don't see any mention of 150 Octane on it.



Here's the restored Combat Vet P51D "Twilight Tear', one of the most accurate of the 51 restorations out there.  Not the 100/130 on the data block.  78th had their 51s late in 44 and into 45.



This one is on a 352nd FG 51
inverted the colors so the numbers would show better.  100/130



So was 150 octane used?  Yep.  It was helpful in the Spits and Mustangs chasing V-1s.  Was it standard for the 8th?  100/130 octane was standard.  Did they use 100/150?  In some instances yes, but I wouldn't call it standard.

[glzsqd]

I know the Russians boosted the poo out of the allisons in the p39 and p40s they received.

Did the f4us and f6fs ever get boosted like the spit and mustang?

[EagleDNY]

If you read from anyone that is not Kurfurst, whose nonsense is continually debunked, his assumption about those units is just that: an assumption. There is actually an entire thread about this on this very forum, as well as many others. There is no definitive evidence of the operational use of 1.98ata.


Once again well end of February....: Messerschmitt's Erprobungsbericht Nr. 15 vom 16.1.45 bis 15.2.45 dated 22.2.45 states that 1.98 ata is blocked, testing done at 1.80 ata: WM 50 Betreib - Nach Mitteilung der E'Stelle sind 1,98 ata gesperrt. Die Erprobung (Funktion und Kerzentemperatur) wird vorläufig mit 1,80 ata (2800 U/min) durchgeführt. 40  


There is a very good reason that Mr. Kurfurst is a "parolee" on these forums. He was also banned from ww2 aircraft forums and is well on his way to being banished from the DCS forums.

One thing Kurfurst sure does have is a picture of two boost gauges from 109s - 1 of them with 1.8 ata as the top notch, and the other with 1.98 ata as the top notch.   Say what you like about the state of German aircraft production in 1945, but they aren't producing 1.98 ata boost gauges because they are unnecessary to their production of new aircraft and conversion kits.   He also has pictures of operational K4s with the C3 fuel sticker - one of the prerequisites for flying at the 1.98ata boost level.   
Does it bother me that nobody can find mechanics logs or whatever documenting 1.98ata 109s flying in 1945?  Not a bit - besides the wholesale deliberate destruction of documents by the luftwaffe as it was retreating from airbases bombed into rubble and operating from highways and open fields, you have the Winter of '45.   Read some accounts of people living in postwar Germany trying to keep warm in the Winter of '45 by burning books, furniture, - or anything else they could find - and I don't think a file cabinet of old maintenance records would long stay out of the stove.   
 

[bozon]

@shift8:
where are you going with this? Do you really wish that HTC makes AH into the "last day of WWII" combat simulator?
I sure as hell don't!

[atlau]

@bozon

Totally agree - in fact some kind of of rotating planeset (and then getting rid of EW/MW) would be how I'd like to see it. But that's off subject.

[shift8]

I'm not sure how you define real arguments.  You claim that 150 Octane fuel was "standard" in the 8th AF.  When?  Show me the modified Mustang data blocks where they changed the octane number from the standard 100/130.   

This is the 'standard' 51 Data Block.

(Image removed from quote.)

This 'standard' data block is on a 479th FG P51D in the late Fall of 44.  I don't see any mention of 150 Octane on it.

(Image removed from quote.)

Here's the restored Combat Vet P51D "Twilight Tear', one of the most accurate of the 51 restorations out there.  Not the 100/130 on the data block.  78th had their 51s late in 44 and into 45.

(Image removed from quote.)

This one is on a 352nd FG 51
inverted the colors so the numbers would show better.  100/130
(Image removed from quote.)


So was 150 octane used?  Yep.  It was helpful in the Spits and Mustangs chasing V-1s.  Was it standard for the 8th?  100/130 octane was standard.  Did they use 100/150?  In some instances yes, but I wouldn't call it standard.

Showing off labels in museums etc has nothing to do with the fuel grades that were actually used. There is a overwhelming amount of doumentation about this, quite a bit of which I already posted. 150grade, and the boost settings associated were standard as of June 1944. The eight airforce certainly converted over and the authorization to do so was USAAF wide. More can be read here:

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/150grade/150-grade-fuel.html

In Addition:

"A decision was made in May 1944 to have ALL fighter units supplied with this fuel no later than 1 June. As of that date operations with this fuel continued until approximately 1 February 1945 when all fighter units switched to “Pep” (100/150 plus 1.5 T’s ethylene dibromide). As of 1 April 1945 all units switched back to 100/150 fuel containing 1.0 T ethylene dibromide."    Emphasis Mine.

"The Production Division was directed on 28 March 1944, under the authority of the Commmanding General, Army Air Forces, to modify all P-38, P-47 and P-51 airplanes in the United Kingdom for the use of Grade 150 fuel, with the necessary modification kits to be shipped to the European Theater of Operations within 30 days. 23   It was decided that Grade 150 fuel was to be the only fuel available for AAF fighter airplanes in the United Kingdom. 24 "

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/150grade/Project_PPF_4april44.jpg