DOW minus 329 points-another recession ?!

[morfiend]

 If you think 6% interest and 24% taxes are alot,dont move to Canada!

   And you sure wouldnt want to live in most European countries either.

  I do hear you tho Dmon,I saw this happening to many of my friends when I was about your age. I went to work in an auto factory instead of going to school and while all my friends were incurring debt I was making money! The auto factories paid well but the work was terrible so I invested my money in tools until I had enough to start my own business.

   I made choices too,just different ones that didnt put me in debt.  I own my home,no mortgage,I own my car,no loan and I'm debt free.  I do live a modest life and try to keep my expenses to a minimum. Most my friend consider me a cheap bastage......



   

[NatCigg]

I  will create my own company, however I need more experience in my field and how businesses are ran before I can do such a thing while having a legit product/service.

   Yup

 I am rather happy with the choices I've made for my future, they are far better than most, which scares me because I know most wont achieve my level and they will be even more worse off.

   Yup

Unfortunately the majority of people cannot "work" their way through college because at 8.50 an hour, you need to work at least 8 hours a day to even think about trying to live on your own, one single paycheck is equal to how much only your books will cost. It's nearly impossible.

 One week, one book...hmm...imagine working all summer to get ready for school..hmm..working at a restaurant that gives free food and better pay...I like where this is going....but then I graduate with  only restaurant experience. OK

So why does the governmemt set standards based on what they think college grads should make, compared to what we are actually making? The majority of my college grad friends still sadly work in restaurants because they have no experience and can't find a Job in their field. When you take into account the amount of graduating young Americans today, compared to what the market offers, and what the average pay is per graduate, you will realize how severe this situation is about to get when the majority of students won't be able to pay them back.

 Long story short, your doing great, dont worry about that.

I don't agree with the mentality that life should be work work work to barely survive and have as little amount of fun as possible because we don't have the time or money to do jack cht. We are supressing our people for the worst. All you have to do is fix the pay scale and you will see a complete change in the direction our country has been going.  If this mentality doesn't change, we will destroy the very foundation of success our country was built on.

It would be nice if we could have a society where most of the time was spent playing like a kid.  Unfortunately, life is tough.  A lot tougher than some big bills from your favorite college.

Now when WW3 starts with the aid of a global market crash....

[DmonSlyr]

stior=NatCigg link=topic=366499.msg4881974#msg4881974 date=1413497696]
Now when WW3 starts with the aid of a global market crash....

Does it have to be that tough? That's all I am saying. Or do we make it tough because we can, for non business owners? Not that it isn't tough to run a business, but I mean financially.  Albeit, it does depend on the business and the demand/income. Business owners created this 40,000 a year standard and Americans have this notion that this is where it should be, for some reason. Work 9 hours a day, and get paid as little as you can.... Its working out for employers I'll tell ya.

When you think about productivity, we are getting things finnished 5x more quickly and yet, you are telling me the majority of Americans are still making wages based on 1980-1990 standards? 

 Our economy is dependent on people spending money. If the people don't have enough to spend, yet prices still continue to climb like they have been over the passed 20 years-ever.. Then people are going to not spend as much in the market. Inevitably, it will have a profound effect on the market as a whole and it will shrink and lower the standard of living until it fixes itself years and years down the road like econ works. I just do not want to see that happen.

[DmonSlyr]

I do realize their are too many factors and situations. But overall is what I'm striving for.   

[DmonSlyr]

Go read about Greece and their stock market right now. This is why you don't combine into one currency. It is not a good idea. A global market currency will kill all of the weekest countries. It won't work.

[Brooke]

Funny isn't it,

"Basic Economics," by Sowell or "Economics in One Lesson, by Hazzlit will help you see many misconceptions you have about how markets work and what functions they play.

[Vraciu]

Technically speaking we are in what is called a "crappy economy" a recession is when the economy experiences negative growth which is more clearly known as shrinking.

If two summers ago the Gubment hadn't stealthily changed the way GDP is calculated we would be in a recession.....or would have been until the latest bs numbers came out...

[Brooke]

People dont understand economics and when it goes all pear shaped they put people in ovens

I do agree with that.

[Brooke]

My opinion:

The economy has in recent years been crappy for most except for those with 100's or 1000's of $millions.  The reason is that the general populations has not taken 5-10 hours of their lives to read, say, "Basic Economics," by Sowell.  As a result, not only do they know almost nothing about economic systems, they have the harmful idea that they *do* know about it and proceed to urge implementation of horrendously bad policies and to vote for officials who will carry them out.

Folks don't think that they know how to do heart surgery without knowing anything about the subject.  Somehow, with just as great a lack of knowledge, they think that they know what economic policies should be implemented.

Is minimum wage helpful to the poor?
Is rent control a good way to get affordable housing into an area?
Is automation good or bad for labor?
Is outsourcing good or bad for your labor?
Do plentiful government college loans make college more affordable for students?
Is war good for an economy?
Is there a fundamental difference between tax revenue and tax rate?

Economics gives you answers to those things that so many people get wrong.

And then there is widespread misunderstanding of what a corporation is, how it works, and what motivates one.

All of this could be corrected with 20 hours of effort in a person's lifetime.

[zack1234]

Brooke its not complicated

"You can have what you want but you cant have what you need"

You can have a big red shiny car but not proper health care

"There is nothing like debt to get a man up in the morning"

Everyone is in debt by using credit cards

I have read numerous books on economics and it all points to one thing "people are daft and dont take responsibility for their own actions"

I might go SLI on my pc or buy a $700 card cash or credit? Cash

[NatCigg]

I can almost buy a Mercedes Benz?  Maybe if i take out a loan against my house?   

Its insane that economist will argue debt can equal earnings.  it makes for tough bills.  like forinstance america.

[DmonSlyr]

I'll just say that I have taken general economic classes and micro/macro economic courses, and finance as well. I also work currently as an accountant. I've read Dave Ramsey's Entraleadership and I'm generally interested in the subject.

On a micro level
While I do not have the experience or understanding of being a business owner, I do understand the idiology how worker wages effect the overall scope of our economy; it all boils down to spending money, buying stocks, bonds, ect. With our earnings.  But the market also fixes itself when lack of demand lowers prices or prices get too high and people cash out their earnings or stop buying. So While their are some companies that are struggling and cannot hire/raise wages and some jobs do not pertain to making higher wages based off the type of company, like small cheap mom and pop restaurants,  many companies are taking advantage of their workers based on 1990 living standards, while psycologically preserving the mentality to their workers that our current rate is "acceptable" in this economy.

Brooke, I do not think our economy is that great either, or as good as it should be. Though on a macro level it has been slowely increasing over the passed few years. Unfortunately from a personal aspect, in Natcigg's example, the mass average of people do not understand credit completely and this causes detrimental effects to lower-middle class earners who were expected to pay these debts back. With the highest amounts of turnover rates ever, the middle class is desperately sluggling to keep up. If automation is bad for the "workers" but good for business, the remaining employees who work them should make higher wages... And of course the companies who design and disperse these products should riase worker rages as their demand will increase. Fortunately or not, automation is almost inevitable.

Edit
P.S I am so thankful to live in America and because of many factors I will most likely never gain citizenship or live in an other country if I don't absolutely have to. So yeah Morfiend, I'd hate to pay those kind of taxes.

[Brooke]

I'll just say that I have taken general economic classes and micro/macro economic courses, and finance as well. I also work currently as an accountant. I've read Dave Ramsey's Entraleadership and I'm generally interested in the subject.

I still think that you should read Sowell's or Hazlett's book, because your opinions on what is the heart of trouble in our economy is far different from what those books would point out as the causes.  My feeling is that most introductory-level college courses on economics do not result in understanding economic policy or its effects and totally lack what people get from either Sowell's or Hazlett's book.  My feeling on that is based on knowing a lot of people who have taken a course or two of college economics and having a lot of economic discussions with them.  They make the same mistakes as do people who haven't ever taken any economics courses when thinking about rent control, wage controls, tariffs, the effects of automation and offshoring, etc.

If you do take 5 hours out of your life to read either one, I would be very interested to see your opinion afterwards.

[Tumor]

I still think that you should read Sowell's or Hazlett's book...

Do they cover how insanely bad socialism is for capitalism? 

[Brooke]

Do they cover how insanely bad socialism is for capitalism? 

Sowell does thoroughly and well.  Hazlett less directly, but it would be clear for the reader by the end.