Cross Control Stall Tutorial

[xPoisonx]

my last trick I will share  

enjoy sucking

[Skyyr]

The way I see it, this post contradicts itself. Am I wrong?

If you have no wing loading, you could fly the aircraft down to 1kt forward airspeed and still not stall, even if the regular stall speed was 60kts.

What determines a stall is the loading of the wing vs the lift produced by it. Lift is determined by airflow and AoA (assuming a fixed, constant wing). Therefore, airspeed in and of itself cannot determine when an aircraft stalls - it's only one of several factors.

[colmbo]

.

What determines a stall is the loading of the wing vs the lift produced by it.

Incorrect.  A stall is exceeding the critical angle of attack.  Load factor has no effect on when the wing stalls….the wing stalls at X angle of attack period.

[Mar]

Right, I understand about no wing loading, thanks Skyyr. The problem is I do not consider falling straight down to the center of Earth's gravity to be "flying". I believe that flying requires the ability to change direction on any plane of movement with complete control, or something like that. To put it another way, if you're just along for the ride now, you're not flying anymore.

That's just how I see it. Respectfully, I am unlikely to see it any other way whether it's every aeronautical engineer in the world or just some hick living in the woods trying to tell me different.

[Skyyr]

Incorrect.  A stall is exceeding the critical angle of attack.  Load factor has no effect on when the wing stalls….the wing stalls at X angle of attack period.

Sorry, my bad. I attempted to dumb down explaining accelerated stalls and lessened wing loading. Thanks for catching that.

[FLS]

Mar when you assume a 1g load then the stall speed coincides with the critical AOA. With a 2g load the stall speed is higher. The only consistent condition for a stall is the critical AOA.

Skyyr the critical AOA is the same regardless of load. When you are at the critical  AOA you can only increase the load by increasing speed first. I assume you know that and misspoke.

[Traveler]

No, I did get the answer. I just stepped out of the discussion for a while so I could look at it from the outside.

The problem was that since my youth I learned that "stall" meant losing control authority, usually due to falling below flying speed. I don't know if it was changed since then, or if everyone else was just using it wrong. Bottom line is as you said, according to the FAA the term stall doesn't have anything to do with airspeed.

But I have one more bone to pick.

The way I see it, this post contradicts itself. Am I wrong?

It's not something new, it's always been Angle of Attack, some where between 0 and 18 degrees on most wings, AOA  , allows the wing to develop lift, Anything over that the wing is stalled.   Even in a 500 MPH dive , if the AOA, the difference between the wing cord line and the relative Wind exceeds the critical AOA the wing will not generate lift. 

[NatCigg]

could we talk about how the air france jet ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_447 )stalled out of the sky when the speed meter froze, or maybe speculate how the air asia flight might have stalled out of the sky?

it seems our "safe" jetliners walk a fine line at 33,000 ft.

[Traveler]

could we talk about how the air france jet ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_447 )stalled out of the sky when the speed meter froze, or maybe speculate how the air asia flight might have stalled out of the sky?

it seems our "safe" jetliners walk a fine line at 33,000 ft.

Asia, flight into a super cell.  447, would have to reread the transcripts.

[Warmongo]

Traveler,

You have won this one but not any friends. Once you bring in real life, yeah, Poison is, and probably never will be able to compete with you in that arena. Mayhap you are not being fair. In this cartoon arena, you just pooped on his pixel manhood while he was giving away one of the hairy arsed secrets so many lust after.

If you haven't noticed, he doesn't give a ratz hairy part about your real world experience as a real pilot because how can he compete at that level. You win there like killing a gnat with a nuke. What matters is his perception that he is superior at manipulating a kiddy game against other kiddys and you are one the of the old ferts he can make cry in some manner.

You are going to have to live with that. He is not going to change or admit to your gnat nuking superiority as long as the arena is this kiddy game.

 

[Warmongo]

That sounds like a Chandelle or perhaps an Immelmann, depending the definition of vertical.  Performed properly, neither includes a stall.  So, the question remains as to why the word "stall" is included.  Also, where did the term "stall turn" originate?  As one of Traveler's posted YouTube videos demonstrates, a series of events, turn-stall-spin has ruined the day of many a pilot in the traffic pattern.  It's certainly not a maneuver a well trained, competent pilot would depend on in air combat.  

And that. 

[Zimme83]

Incorrect.  A stall is exceeding the critical angle of attack.  Load factor has no effect on when the wing stalls….the wing stalls at X angle of attack period.

Excatly, when AoA is too big, the air flow over the wing can no longer follow the wing surface and when it happens the wing stops producing lift.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stall_(fluid_mechanics) For those hwo wants to learn more about it.

[Ack-Ack]

Also, where did the term "stall turn" originate?  

I wonder if it's a hold over from WW1.  I've read a few WW1 pilot accounts that mention doing a stall turn while "stunting" (aerobatics) and the descriptions of the maneuvers themselves appear to be maneuvers like hammerheads and chandelles.

ack-ack

[JimmyD3]

Dang, can't believe you guys are still arguing this stuff.

[Puma44]

I wonder if it's a hold over from WW1.  I've read a few WW1 pilot accounts that mention doing a stall turn while "stunting" (aerobatics) and the descriptions of the maneuvers themselves appear to be maneuvers like hammerheads and chandelles.

ack-ack

Although the aircraft may be on the verge of a stall, a properly performed hammerhead or Chandelle doesn't include stalling the aircraft.