Allied test of German MK108 Mine-Geschoss HE/T round: Must see

[Chalenge]

That's probably the smartest thing you have ever said, Pred, which is an excellent reason for you to be ignored. It doesn't matter how many of your clique you pull into the forums you cannot change the fact that video of the MK108 30mm in combat simply does not exist. Nor does it change the facts I stated about the 109. It doesn't matter one whit what you think, or what childish insult you resort to. The facts remain as they are.

[PR3D4TOR]

Because you are the harbinger of facts damn it! LOL! You must not know what the word means.

There are no rockets in those clips. Accept it or not, there are still no rockets.

It is very likely that there are MK 108's in those clips. The weapon was in widespread use by Reichsverteidigung units who engaged the Allied bomber streams. The weapon was designed for it. Accept it or not.

Go ahead. Ignore everyone who challenges you and your completely unsubstantiated and unsupported "facts".

[Chalenge]

Nope, the only thing you have on your side is "LOL." It's much easier to prove a positive, so prove that those videos are 30mm. What you will discover is that the very same video exists with the label "20mm" and "Wfr. Gr. 21."

Like I said already, if you find actual footage of the MK108 it will be priceless. You will never have to work again.

[PR3D4TOR]

Putting words in my mouth won't help you. There are no rockets in those videos. If there were they would produce large black flak puffs, not small white ones. The small white ones are cannon shells. Whether they are 20 mm or 30 mm I cannot say and have never made any claims about, but the relative size of the smoke puffs and destruction is an indication of what weapon was used.

[BuckShot]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=90m0VJaQCPOZsQSg_oDgAg&url=http://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DJVxtJULJ0KA&ved=0CBwQtwIwAA&usg=AFQjCNH2HallxlAxkiNs7oIi1GGQYP_qnA

First link I found. Mk108 30mm footage.

[bustr]

Chalenge,

Whether you are wrong or right is irrelevant here. You have a very bad habit of dropping the other shoe in bits and pieces never just giving direct sources while using the time to insult your audience. You mention the films and their content tags to the full originals. 20mm and 21cm Wgr.

Give Predator a link to show this please so that he can compare films. MK108 Minengeschoss self destructed at about 1100m after the fuse was armed. By not giving links, you are in the same position you accuse Predator of being in.

We may need to get out the Krusty meter for the two of you.

[bustr]

Supposedly the last frames of this is a 262 shooting up bombers. I guess 262 don't count for having MK108.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aReAJ4t_ShU

[Oldman731]

Supposedly the last frames of this is a 262 shooting up bombers. I guess 262 don't count for having MK108.

There doesn't seem to be a way to really tell.  Whoever edited the film put the shots of the 262s together with the gun camera films, but the gun camera films themselves don't indicate (as far as I can see) what sort of gun is being fired.

- oldman

[bustr]

The real point here is Chalenge has some links to post for Pred.

[Chalenge]

Bustr, the evidence is in the film itself. Little puffs of white smoke don't just self-create 20meters above a bomber. For the last fifteen years people have been claiming they have footage of the 30mm in combat. It all stems from one single episode of poorly informed narration from the History channel. Such footage does not exist. You should know that you cannot prove a negative. Instead, prove that there is. You can't.

I do not see where I insulted anyone, least of all pred.

[bustr]

Now you are using the very same argument you dinged Pred for using to you. You are back to dropping pieces of the other shoe.

Links please to the original full films that have the tech annotations specifying planes and weapons involved. Your responses and refutations to Pred make it obvious to any reasonable person that you infer in your research you have seen them. Thus making you a spot expert on snippets of those films.

I looked for combat footage of BR 21 hitting bombers. Couldn't find any. Found one with a few frames of a 110 launching one just as it got shot to pieces by an escort. You can see what the launch blast and trail looks like but, nothing in terms of an aerial detonation or contact detonation into a bomber. Since it is an 8inch artillery HE round with 90lb of explosive, a direct hit against a bomber would remove the tail end or wing at the point of impact, closer to filmed detonations of 88 ack rounds hitting bombers. Not even the most energetic explosive cannon round in any of those films comes close to 90lb of HA41. Now 85 grams of HA41, yes. 

[PR3D4TOR]

It's the same rocket as used in the Nebelwerfer artillery system. There is nothing even remotely close to a WGr 21 blast in those video clips.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtSTMYGEyaM

[bustr]

Yes, the rocket motor but, the BR 21's war head was increased from 24lb of HA41 to 90lb specifically for the explosion effect to break up bomber formations. It's only us in this kiddy game who think in terms of actually hitting a bomber with that rocket or the 88's.

The greater percentage of destruction, damage, and loss of life in the air war with the bomber streams was from shrapnel. One German pilot in an interview talked about lobbing MK108 rounds from 1100m onto bomber formations so the self destruct would send shrapnel into the bombers. Other wise they were too slow to really get out safe. It would be nice if HiTech updated that feature to the MK108 and M103 Minengeschoss rounds.

Our game gives us a very distorted view of the air war over Europe.

[PR3D4TOR]

It's not a recreation of WWII, and a pretty arcade'ish sim compared to what's out there. Though it is a good balance for a MMO.

[save]

Mk108 where mostly used by fw190a8r2, attacking from rear, shoot with 20mm at 400, close in point blank and deliver 2 second blow, almost a certain death for the Buff.
According to most resources Sturmböcken where almost impregnable to .50 return fire from buffs in front of it.

Unescorted buffs where deathtraps when Sturmgruppen found unescorted buff formations.

On occasion as many as 40 4-engined bombers where shot down during a single mission by fighters.

Sturmgruppen paid the price when escort fighters found them, some Sturmgruppen had 500% losses.