Best fighter Pilot

[glzsqd]

Yes, you're right but hence the quotes, those P51 pilots would probably say otherwise.

Pretty sure Hartmann would ditch so much because he would take damage from debris.

[Krupinski]

Pretty sure Hartmann would ditch so much because he would take damage from debris.

Indeed... it's hard to miss at point blank. I'm pretty sure he was in a mid air collision too, and managed to make it home.

[Zimme83]

Thats why he isnt on my list, his tactic depended too much on the lack of skill among his opponents. Marseille excelled in controlling his aircraft and used it to beat his opponents. He did also scored his kills against an equal opponent, unlike most others. RAF could match FW in both pilot and plane quality, a big different from the red army.

[glzsqd]

mehh, Brewster pilots where shooting down Russian planes that couldn't break unless ordered to


I bet they even had commissar planes flying over head to dispatch any deserters!

[Zimme83]

mehh, Brewster pilots where shooting down Russian planes that couldn't break unless ordered to


I bet they even had commissar planes flying over head to dispatch any deserters!

  that will eliminate all lw pilots, except Marseille,  since they also flew against the same opponents as the Brews, except that LW had better planes...

[Vraciu]

that will eliminate all lw pilots, except Marseille,  since they also flew against the same opponents as the Brews, except that LW had better planes...

All?   I didn't realize the Germans only fought on the Eastern Front.   Who knew?

[Krupinski]

Thats why he isnt on my list, his tactic depended too much on the lack of skill among his opponents. Marseille excelled in controlling his aircraft and used it to beat his opponents. He did also scored his kills against an equal opponent, unlike most others. RAF could match FW in both pilot and plane quality, a big different from the red army.

You speak almost as if you were there to witness both of their engagements yourself... Every ace was good in their own way, but unless you've witnessed them fly for yourself, it's hard to say who was better at what. Also, many of Hartmann's victories were La5's which were quite capable if flown by the right pilots.

[Vraciu]

There were a ton of great pilots.   Godfrey and Gentile.  Krupinski and Graf.  Heck, even Rudel was an ace.  It is an impossible task to come up with just one.

And even the greats point to others as better than themselves.   Sakai pointed to Nishizawa.  Vraciu pointed to O'Hare and Marion Carl.  It is a fool's errand for us to pick.

[Krupinski]

Krupinski was a brave dude, from what I read about him he wasn't afraid to turn his 109, and often landed with some type of damage. He was shot down more than once, but survived the war with 197 victories. There was a time when he was forced to ditch in a mine field, without knowing of course. He got out of his plane and successfully walked across the field then was told later how close he came....

[Zimme83]

You speak almost as if you were there to witness both of their engagements yourself... Every ace was good in their own way, but unless you've witnessed them fly for yourself, it's hard to say who was better at what. Also, many of Hartmann's victories were La5's which were quite capable if flown by the right pilots.

Read his own words about he scored his kills. Of course Hartmann was an excellent fighter pilot. But since the tread was about answer the impossible question of who was the best i picked Marseille before Hartmann because imo its harder to pull of a front quarter shot compare to kill a a guy from 50 yards that doesnt even know he is attacked. None of us have even a slight idea of how it really was. Fact is that most top aces were just lucky, many of them were shot down but they were lucky to survive. Hartmann crashed 16 times, Marseille only one but Hartmann was the one that survive.

[Krupinski]

That's the thing, I doubt all of Hartmann's victories were point blank undetected shots. Same with Marsielle, probably not all of his victories were deflection shots, or from long range, but rather close up at 50 yards. The world may never know! 

[Zimme83]

That's the thing, I doubt all of Hartmann's victories were point blank undetected shots. Same with Marsielle, probably not all of his victories were deflection shots, or from long range, but rather close up at 50 yards. The world may never know! 

Hartmann himself stated that 80% of his victim prob never saw what shot them down.
The question is only about personal opinions, the question will never get a final answer, atleast not on this board.

[Krupinski]

I don't believe there is a final answer. 

[earl1937]

Yes, you're right but hence the quotes, those P51 pilots would probably say otherwise.

One of the things which stands out is on a year to year basis, 39, 40, 41, 41, 1/2 of 42, The German air Force were the masters of the skies! But when the industrial might of the U.S. begin to have a direct beariong ont he outcome of the war, its easy to see who won and why.
I don't have any doubt that the American pilots were by far, the best trained during that time in history! However, again, the Israel air Force proved how well their pilots were trained during the 67 war.
I think the one big advantage for any good fighter pilot is his ability to see before the attacker sees him! In almost every account of "Gabby's" kills, except in one instance, he saw the Krauts or Italian pilots before they knew he was anywhere around.
I think Robert Olds proved that also.
The Korean conflict was pretty much a "push", although we did manage to down more migs than they downed us.
Of course if you read the North Korean version of what happened, we lost by a large number.
I have talked to actual F-86 and F-84 pilots who fought those "Kooks" and all they would do is 5 or 6 would start a "merry go around" and when one of our guys when in to get a kill, he had someone on his "6". As soon as they, the Americans learned to attack on the "cardinal" points of the compass, that put a stop to that nonsense!

[ink]

Hartmann by far was the best at what he did..

and for the record he was never shot down...in 1307 sorties or 1303...it might be 1403

he never went into his silk...14 times he was damaged to the point of having to ditch...NEVER from enemy fire.

his most proud fact was he never lost a wingman...except IIRC he lost a wingman on his very first sortie..but he wasn't in charge..

he has 352 kills not the number posted earlier....

he was the master hunter... SA unparalleled....perfect decision making (as humanly possible anyways) 

in AH he would be the worst BnZ pilot ever hahaha but I never even remotely think of him like that...

of course this is MO  and my memory is getting a bit old...but I know for sure (as sure as one can be without witnessing it yourself) he never got shot down...and he had massive amount of combat sorties...with 352 kills...that is insane....lotta respect for him and guys like him.