Author Topic: Best fighter Pilot  (Read 5275 times)

Offline Arlo

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Re: Best fighter Pilot
« Reply #90 on: May 16, 2015, 03:12:13 PM »
Witold Urbanowicz, during the war none of Witold Urbanowicz's planes were hit by a single enemy bullet.

(Image removed from quote.)

Ah, multiple hits each time, eh?

Offline Kazan_HB

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Re: Best fighter Pilot
« Reply #91 on: May 16, 2015, 04:36:18 PM »
Ah, multiple hits each time, eh?

He was top ten Ace Battle of Britain. Two times shot down through one day four enemy planes (Hurricane1), join as voluntary to Flying Tigers. Shot down 11 planes, need more Arlo?
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Offline Arlo

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Re: Best fighter Pilot
« Reply #92 on: May 16, 2015, 05:10:04 PM »
He was top ten Ace Battle of Britain. Two times shot down through one day four enemy planes (Hurricane1), join as voluntary to Flying Tigers. Shot down 11 planes, need more Arlo?

I'm sorry, Kazan. Twas a joke ('a single enemy bullet' vs 'multiple'). Please don't be offended over that.  ;)

Offline Someguy63

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Re: Best fighter Pilot
« Reply #93 on: May 16, 2015, 05:18:40 PM »
I have an entry for Worst Fighter Pilot:

Scott O'Grady, F-16 pilot.  Caused his flight lead to miss out on being an ace because he fired his missiles incompetently.  Sent back the U.S. for remedial weapons training.  Returned to theater and was shot down on his first mission by a SAM.  O'Grady did not maneuver his jet when he was fired upon, but instead flew straight and level.  At the time of impact, his flight leader was pulling 8G's.

How did this guy get in the Air Force?
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Offline Kazan_HB

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Re: Best fighter Pilot
« Reply #94 on: May 16, 2015, 05:53:10 PM »
I'm sorry, Kazan. Twas a joke ('a single enemy bullet' vs 'multiple'). Please don't be offended over that.  ;)

ah :) all ok. Urbanowicz was born fighter like other best fighters. I read his book about war over China. Had one time fight alone vs 6 KI43II.
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Offline Brooke

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Re: Best fighter Pilot
« Reply #95 on: May 17, 2015, 03:09:34 AM »
for a small battered second hand book I picked up off amazon for spare change it is one of my favourite reads in my collection.  Should go find it Ink I'm sure you will appreciate it.

Yep, Samurai, by Saburo Sakai is an exellent book.  :aok

Offline alskahawk

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Re: Best fighter Pilot
« Reply #96 on: May 18, 2015, 06:36:00 PM »
 Here is a quick bad pilot story. My helo squadron was tasked with flying a young Lt to North Island. He was met outside the terminal by an Admiral. Admiral's don't meet Lt's at the airplane very often. Apparently this young Lt was responsible for bombing some farm fields outside of 29 Palms. Not the bombing range. The town! He narrowly missed hitting a farmer driving by in a pickup truck.

 His job as flight leader was to navigate his flight of A7E's and A6's to the bombing range at 29 Palms, but he was off course by ....Just a bit.

Offline XxDaSTaRxx

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Re: Best fighter Pilot
« Reply #97 on: May 18, 2015, 06:43:29 PM »
...bailed out on his own accord while multiple P51s were pursuing him...
That is not something somebody worthy of the name "The Best Fighter Pilot" would do.

EDIT: I'm not familiar with this story, was he damaged when the 51s were chasing him?
« Last Edit: May 18, 2015, 06:46:43 PM by XxDaSTaRxx »
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Offline Krupinski

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Re: Best fighter Pilot
« Reply #98 on: May 18, 2015, 06:58:46 PM »
That is not something somebody worthy of the name "The Best Fighter Pilot" would do.

EDIT: I'm not familiar with this story, was he damaged when the 51s were chasing him?

He claims he wasn't damaged, also he made several turns with them while firing off the last of his MG's before he bailed. if I were stuck down low with no ammo and 8 P51s chasing me... I would most certainly do the same. Nobody in a single 109 could win that fight.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2015, 07:03:04 PM by Krupinski »

Offline Flench

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Re: Best fighter Pilot
« Reply #99 on: May 19, 2015, 06:54:17 AM »
BigHorn , period . HHAHAHHAA . No joke I bet he been bad backthen .
« Last Edit: May 19, 2015, 07:43:50 AM by Flench »
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Offline BBP

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Re: Best fighter Pilot
« Reply #100 on: May 19, 2015, 07:33:00 AM »
Yea! I like SNOOPY! LOL

Offline Flench

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Re: Best fighter Pilot
« Reply #101 on: May 19, 2015, 07:44:11 AM »
Yea! I like SNOOPY! LOL
Me too , LOL
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Offline bozon

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Re: Best fighter Pilot
« Reply #102 on: May 20, 2015, 03:21:11 AM »
He claims he wasn't damaged, also he made several turns with them while firing off the last of his MG's before he bailed. if I were stuck down low with no ammo and 8 P51s chasing me... I would most certainly do the same. Nobody in a single 109 could win that fight.
So he bombed & bailed....
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Offline artik

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Re: Best fighter Pilot
« Reply #103 on: May 20, 2015, 07:50:00 AM »
I don't have any doubt that the American pilots were by far, the best trained during that time in history! However, again, the Israel air Force proved how well their pilots were trained during the 67 war.

I think you should distinguish between personal record of a fighter pilot and a general ability of the air force.

You can have some amazing aces with bad overall airforce performance/training and have a great airforce without some outstanding pilots (although the further is less likely)

Finally you need to get the overall picture - the combination of training, tactics, experience, command and control and at the LAST stage the equipment.

For example Japanese navy had one of the most trained pilots, they were very good, but... they flew without radio for a long period, many of them didn't use chutes(!!!) until they were given very-very explicit order and in general had no good training program to that allowed to bring new recruits to the business. They were very stubborn despite it costs lives. So they had experienced and well trained pilots but the overall system was in pretty bad shape.

If you take as an example Claire Lee Chennault and its AVG - they had crappy planes, horrible logistics problems and overall training wasn't comparable to the of IJAF but the system of early warnings, suitable tactics, good intelligence and finally ability to outsmart the enemy did the job.



Israeli Air Force had some interesting history and damn good overall performance... otherwise probably Israel wouldn't survive and we wouldn't talk about IAF...

I think if you describe IAF, in few words you would say as realistic with a "legs on the ground" an addition of lots of Chutzpah...

It started by a WW2 veterans who searched some action after a war during 1948 (also most of them left after the end of the war)... so it had a good opening position.

It always had a good emphasis on the training and being adopted to local realities. For example if not Israeli requirements the Mirage wouldn't get its 30mm canons which was the major weapon in 1967. They related to missiles in that period as mostly useless drag on wings (and indeed the first Shafrir I missile in 1967 was a horrible missile)... The Mirage radar had many problems as well and was barely used.

In contrast to USAF/USN in that period that believed that guns aren't for use any more... Russians designed strict interceptors (and accidentally created quite a maneuverable MiG-21 [1]) Later USAF "rediscovered" energy maneuverability theory...

So finally IAF had good realistic training good overall system that allowed to bring stuff like operation Moked. Ground crew is also very well trained to allow very high sortie generation and serviceability rate... (and that I can tell from a personal experience) IAF have had too many opportunities to "learn" so it had to. The dogfight was very important part of training and IAF related always on a close combat - but it is also due to a simple fact - that there is no "much of Israel" and you have to be proficient in close areal combat.

Of course IAF tries to keep technological edge and bring some innovations others dismiss, like it was the first western air force to operate HMD and have high off-bore-sight missiles - having them in operational way-way-way before USAF even started to think about them. The ECM is considered state of the art (but nobody really knows).

And finally Chutzpah factor... for example:

- Operation Moked... otherwise Israel wouldn't exist today
- Operation Entebbe
- Operation Opera - otherwise the Gulf war and the middle east in general would be very different place.
- Operation Wooden Leg

But some of the Chutzpah come at price during many other operations.

Finally in general I think IAF was and still one of the best if not the best air force around with nice amount of aces relatively to its size [2]



[1] When MiG-21 arrived to the Middle East it had lots of problems of engine failures - much higher than in Soviet air force. When MiG test pilots were send to Syria they discovered that they fly MiGs at much lower speeds and higher AOA and higher engine settings then they thought it was designed for (i.e. dogfighting in it hardly rather than running intercepts)... So Russians were oblivious to importance of the dog-fighting as well.
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_flying_aces
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Offline Muzzy

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Re: Best fighter Pilot
« Reply #104 on: May 24, 2015, 03:31:22 AM »


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