Adjust the scenario's

[Viper61]

CM's:

  Your scenario's could and would be more entertaining if the scenario's were adjusted to fit the numbers attending the FSO.  Take the current scenario each side has 3 targets to defend and attack equals 6 targets in total.  Divide by the normal FSO numbers over the last few months (about 100 per side) and you end up with about 16 pilots at each location.  That's not as fun as it could be.  In fact i could get into much larger fights in the Late War Arena escorting the 49th or FB's missions.

  Everyone here loves a good fight, but the larger they are the better they get in nearly very instance.  Scenario designs should be set up so that there is at least 30 pilots at each objective and preferably about 40 and that's for each side.  I understand the uncontrollable areas like server issues, turn out and CIC plans.

  Larger forces allow for more elaborate plans, coordination, timing, deception, scouting, layered offensive and defensive tactics.  Right now we have little or none of that.  My point - For Frame 1 the ALLIED side had some issues with getting the Op Ord out in time, so a last minute planner stepped in to assist (Kudos's to all).  Reality of it was that the plan on Friday morning would have looked like a plan if planned 4 days earlier.  I know as I started to pull together some planning options on Thursday morning and really couldn't come up much past divide up the guys and cover 6 target areas with 16 guys each.  The CIC planning and coordination's followed by multi-squad level operations is what separates the FSO from everything else in the AHII.  We don't have that currently, please fix.

  The current scenario really shouldn't have more than 2 or 3 targets (offensive and defensive) per side.  My recommendation as the Germans were on the offensive during this period and location.  Have the AXIS attack 2 and defend 1, Have the Russians defend 2 and Attack 1.  Give points to destroyed targets to the attacker and not destroyed targets to the defender, and all is even.  You don't have to change the scenario just decrease the target areas by 50%.

  You want larger FSO turn outs.  Help me to recruit - Make every FSO operation BIG and that will attract players even if only once to watch 60-100 bombers coming into a target.

[Squire]

The current setup is a reflection of the tactical level fighting on the Eastern Front. It was not like an 8th Air Force mission with large raids but more akin to covering the entire "front". Somewhat similar to the Western Front in WW1. So its a different tempo.

That said...we always look at the FSO #s and adjust the target #s. Sometimes we go for more or less. Currently we go between 4 and 6 targets total with the player base at @ 225.

We get that some players prefer larger fights and OOBs to coordinate.

Later. 

[j500ss]

CM's:

  Your scenario's could and would be more entertaining if the scenario's were adjusted to fit the numbers attending the FSO.  Take the current scenario each side has 3 targets to defend and attack equals 6 targets in total.  Divide by the normal FSO numbers over the last few months (about 100 per side) and you end up with about 16 pilots at each location.  That's not as fun as it could be.  In fact i could get into much larger fights in the Late War Arena escorting the 49th or FB's missions.

  Everyone here loves a good fight, but the larger they are the better they get in nearly very instance.  Scenario designs should be set up so that there is at least 30 pilots at each objective and preferably about 40 and that's for each side.  I understand the uncontrollable areas like server issues, turn out and CIC plans.

  Larger forces allow for more elaborate plans, coordination, timing, deception, scouting, layered offensive and defensive tactics.  Right now we have little or none of that.  My point - For Frame 1 the ALLIED side had some issues with getting the Op Ord out in time, so a last minute planner stepped in to assist (Kudos's to all).  Reality of it was that the plan on Friday morning would have looked like a plan if planned 4 days earlier.  I know as I started to pull together some planning options on Thursday morning and really couldn't come up much past divide up the guys and cover 6 target areas with 16 guys each.  The CIC planning and coordination's followed by multi-squad level operations is what separates the FSO from everything else in the AHII.  We don't have that currently, please fix.

  The current scenario really shouldn't have more than 2 or 3 targets (offensive and defensive) per side.  My recommendation as the Germans were on the offensive during this period and location.  Have the AXIS attack 2 and defend 1, Have the Russians defend 2 and Attack 1.  Give points to destroyed targets to the attacker and not destroyed targets to the defender, and all is even.  You don't have to change the scenario just decrease the target areas by 50%.

  You want larger FSO turn outs.  Help me to recruit - Make every FSO operation BIG and that will attract players even if only once to watch 60-100 bombers coming into a target.

I would have to tend to agree with the target numbers, and airframe type numbers at times as well.  It seems we are trying to do as much today as we were asked to 4-5 years ago, but do it with less.   I'm not saying it is not possible to accomplish that, but there are times when it is for sure.

As far as "bigger turnout" goes?  Well in some setups I suspect it could have an effect on them, but at other times I do not think the effect would be there at all.

An example of where I think more targets was a bad move is below:

Last month we suddenly saw the target number increase after frame 2, and frame 3 saw a very lopsided end result that I believe was due to that extra target being added, or having to be defended.  People got spread very thin it seemed to me.

I also do not agree with the numbers we are seeing lately of airframes and the min and max numbers being placed on basically all of them,  save one or two ocassionally.   I can be very tough for Cic's having to meet those numbers.

 Yet as a designer (CM)  I also get that you want to make sure you include all available airframes that were involved in that area of operations.

Just for an example, in this setup.   

The need for 3 axis bombers with minimums just is not there to me, but maybe that is just me 

There is no way I would send 10 Stukas to a target without at least 10 escorts and that would be only if it was my own squad in the Stukas.  Realistically,  I would send no less than 15 escorts because a Stuka is basically totally defenseless, so why would I want to send an entire squad to a sure death, and possible mission failure?

Now add in that a Cic also has to send in 10 Ju-88's and 10 HE-111's. 

Said Cic has now  tied up at least 60 pilots right there and in probably at least 5 airframe types.

Now lets say on a given night that particular side only has 90 players show up.   You have 30 left to defend 3 targets, and if one of those squads is a 11-15, you can end up with literally 7-8 defending against an incoming strike (potentially 50 airframes).   That is a tough gig for any squad to pull off.

That all said, I will say this.   I think ( not sure but I think it anyways)  that  CM's also take into account the fact they want the setup constructed in such a way that CiC's have to think and be "creative" as it were.  Which it should be be that way.

I can appreciate for sure the work you all put into making this happen for all of us    , but maybe a few tweaks might not be such a bad thing when it comes to target numbers? 

That's just my $.02 on the subject.

For all the CM'c and Cic's    This Bud's for you 

 

JDOG
G3-MF Ops

[Viper61]

Squire and JDog good points and comments

Squire - I get the tactical setup for the current time period in Russia.  I'm not that interested in historical accuracy or recreating more exact set ups.  I'm not sure of how many others flying the FSO are that concerned about the accuracy either. To most, just match the correct planes, set up a scenario (targets) in which we can concentrate forces into an area and have a get time.

  Also you could set this up like a late war Germany scenario.  I for one would love to see the AXIS side attacking Russian targets with 60 sets of HE-111's escorted by 30 109's and the Russians defending with 40-50 Yaks with a few P-40's and P-39's for good measure.  Now that would be fun!!

  I know the CM's have a ruff job and the pay sucks also    Appreciate what you and the guys do.  I just would like to see and participate in more scenario's with out of the box thinking.  These scenario's have been played over and over again with little changes.  Its time to "what if it a bit" in my opinion.

  And on that note the Dec scenario's in times gone past were the "What if" scenario's like BOB 1946 style etc.  Its time to give the Germans some B-24 stand ins for Condors and Lend Lease B-29's and P-51's to the Russians.  And thanks to a technical glitch the Germans started mass producing ME 262's in 1942.  HO HO HO lets have fun!!!! 
 

[Bino]

For Frame 3, each side will have two targets to hit and two assets to defend. We'll see how that changes the fights.

 

[Viper61]

Thank you Mr. Bino 

[Devil 505]

For Frame 3, each side will have two targets to hit and two assets to defend. We'll see how that changes the fights.

 

This is an especially good move considering the probable population drop because of the new Star Wars movie being released that day.

I also agree with the Viper's main point. Although, this setup is ok because it favors lighter, tactical strike aircraft

[Devil 505]

Funny. Even though Frame Three had it's number of objectives reduced to two per side, I saw far fewer enemies last night than the first two frames. V76 was only attacked by nine Il2's last night.

[Scca]

Funny. Even though Frame Three had it's number of objectives reduced to two per side, I saw far fewer enemies last night than the first two frames. V76 was only attacked by nine Il2's last night.

Mass disco may have had something to do with that.

[Devil 505]

It was over before the disco.

[Frodo]

It was over before the disco.

All we saw was the Il2s also and waited after disco for second attack that didn't materialize.

And sorry about last night, Wiley is being flogged as we speak.     

[Devil 505]

Go easy on Wiley, I flew right in front of him. 

At first I thought the tailgunner on the IL2 got me, but the rounds hit too hard. I was like, "When the heck did Il2's get 20mm tailguns?"   

[Dantoo]

The second hit on didn't happen on 76 because after the disco we went off to rearm and reup and you lot didn't give us a chance to get back there!
You were still fighting the same people so that part didn't matter.

This one needs a major rejig. 

The Allies never had enough people throughout.  Numbers were low all three frames.  I don't know why but I suspect that given the rides on offer people just lost enthusiasm.  30 minutes in on the first 2 frames and Axis had 40+ more people the air (usually more).  It's silly.  It just takes the enjoyment out as one side can't find a fight and the other can't find one worth having.  FSO should be a fun contest not a turkey shoot.

The other threads around this one are talking about squads getting too many bomber rides.  This one might have been helped by one less target and a reduced requirement for bombers. Too many people find something else to do if they are getting a large proportion of heavies in their orders.

The quality disparity between aircraft types also has to be addressed by an increase in numbers on the Allied side or finding a plane to balance the contest.  This is similar to mid war Pacific events where there must be at least a numbers advantage to the Axis to make it worth turning up.  Flying torches against much better planes tests the resolve of the participants.

Any of these FSO's where one side has the lesser ride plus a numbers disadvantage needs close attention.

Of course, I enjoyed it, as always. 

[Devil 505]

The second hit on didn't happen on 76 because after the disco we went off to rearm and reup and you lot didn't give us a chance to get back there!
You were still fighting the same people so that part didn't matter.

But your squad had P-40s. If you were escorting the CJs you would have been there during their attack. What other ord attacking aircraft were slated to hit 76? There was more than enough time to relaunch the discoed pilots and make the attack run. And Sukov was the only guy from my squad to frie jagd after the disco, the rest guarded 76. That was mostly Jg11 you encountered.

 

[Dantoo]

We weren't escorting.

Our orders were clearly understood.  Even if we had been escorting, we wouldn't have made it out of 76 and your night would've been over an hour earlier than it was.  If we hadn't had the disco and had headed straight in, we might have been lucky enough to get away after bombing. Perhaps not and again the night ends early.  We wouldn't have done a lot with the 500lb bombs anyway.

Time wasn't our problem after the disco.  Getting back together and then surviving long enough to get to target was.   While we were rearming we had 109s flying through our ack and we weren't at a front line field.

The disparity in side numbers was horrible but it was still the best we enjoyed over 3 legs.  Most times we checked we were 40-60 pilots less than the Axis.  Yes that many! We were the last Allies flying.  We ended after we had 2 undercarriage mishaps and a control failure. No choice in it.  We were fully determined to head back and drop some bombs.  The set up was never going to allow it to happen.

Axis were so desperate to find somebody to fight they never gave us a break.  Who can blame them?  There wasn't enough Allies to go round.  You can't blame the guys that fought to the bitter end for the lack of a fight.