Author Topic: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)  (Read 10050 times)

Offline Serenity

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2015, 11:35:02 AM »
1) Poe struck me as pretty hyperactive in general. He's kind of like Peter Quill crossed with a ferret. I actually found it an interesting contrast from some of the other pilots we've seen, who tend to have that stand-offish cool. Just look at Red Leader, Gold Five, and Wedge (well, Wedge in Empire and Jedi, he was still young and excitable in the original film). They all speak in that very professional monotone. Whereas Dameron is very animated and enthusiastic about flying. That's just who he is, and there really ARE people like that in real life.

3/5) I think it's a combination of natural talent, and POSSIBLE some early training she got before she was abandoned, and just forgot about. As much as I hate using the Prequels a similar thing happened with Anakin; he was able to naturally draw on the Force in Episode I without even realizing he was doing it. Luke did it, too; the Force was the entire reason he was able to hit the exhaust port on the Death Star (Red Leader came close, but his timing was just a hair off). Rey was probably doing much the same thing. And remember, it took her a couple tries to Mind Trick that Stormtrooper. Her only other real (intentional) Force feat was summoning the lightsaber to her hand.

6) It's not like Superweapon of the Week wasn't a bad running joke in the EU already (ESPECIALLY thanks to Kevin J. Anderson). And, well, the Original Trilogy set the precedent that the Empire loves superweapons, so the the First Order decided to go for it, too.

7) This is exactly something the original Expanded Universe ran with. The Empire did NOT disappear with the Emperor's death. It was succeeded by the Imperial Remnant proper, along with dozens of individual warlords grabbing up as much territory for themselves as they could (Zsinj, Terradoc, etc.). We're just seeing the new version of that factionalism.

And I agree, this movie actually FELT like Star Wars.

As I said in another thread, when I started thinking about it, the fact that Episode VII follows much the same formula as the original is NOT a bad thing, because the formula that Star Wars ITSELF followed is so indelibly, inextricably linked to the formula that underlies ALL human myth. Lucas may have sought inspiration from Flash Gordon and Kurosawa, but the single most important source was Joseph Campbell. The formula that the Original Trilogy follows is a very deeply-rooted one, and it's precisely why Star Wars is so culturally resonant.

That's something the Prequels lost sight of.

I read all the main post-Jedi stuff up through the end of New Jedi Order. And believe me, it was a LOT of miss. Everything not written by Zahn, Stackpole, and Allston wasn't fit to wipe your @#$% with as toilet paper.

You uh, actually read the opening crawl, right? Because they AREN'T ignoring it. The Resistance is being armed and supported by the Republic, and Leia was sent BY the Republican Senate to deal with it. It was spelled out in ACTUAL WORDS:

1) I don't disagree with you on him. I'm fine with him. My point one was mostly directed at the scene with Fin and the girl.

3/5) I agree with your earlier points, but my conflict comes in on the action. Faster reflexes and sensing things is one thing. Being able to actually manipulate something is another entirely. We saw Luke who had SOME guidance and instruction could barely move the lightsaber in ESB, and here she OVERPOWERS a Sith Lord  without any reason to know it is POSSIBLE to pull a lightsaber to you like that.

6) It's not so much that I mind the fact that it's a Superweapon, but the fact that unlike the Sun Crusher, the Galaxy Gun, the World Devastators, which are all unique in their shape, their usage, their goal, their function, and their demise, the dialogue in the movie even pointed out "It's another Death Star". Giant planet-destroying sphere? So, we're gonna fly down a trench, chased by TIE fighters, and shoot a thermal exhaust port, right? Oh, it's a thermal exhaust building this time? But it's still a trench, right? It was TOO rinse-repeat.

7) You misunderstand me. It's not the new bad guys that bother me, I'm fine with that, and I actually like that they DID change that a bit more, but the fact that we have the Republic (As pointed out, they're FUNDING the resistance, but that's it...) who doesn't seem that bothered, despite everything that just happened, and again, Leia is the <S>Rebel</> Resistance General (Recycled symbol and all). It doesn't make any sense from what we saw in the original trilogy.

I agree with those authors being the best, and they wrote MOST of it for that reason. There are only a couple of books that I can recall reading that I thought weren't well done, but the thing I liked about it is that for the most part, things changed, the universe developed in a sensible manner, and we saw real character development.

Whether you liked the movie Speed or not, it set a new standard for all action movies with non stop action, and this is made in that formulaic pattern, whether you like that sort of thing or not. Barely a hint of character development, every movie has been Action, Action, Action, ever since. Even some of the Rom Coms. Oh, hehe, and who's Hannah Montana?

You're exactly right, which is why I RARELY find myself enjoying anything that isn't specifically comedy, where I know not to take anything seriously.

Offline Easyscor

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2015, 12:01:04 PM »
Quote from: Easyscor on Yesterday at 08:56:20 PM
Whether you liked the movie Speed or not, it set a new standard for all action movies with non stop action, and this is made in that formulaic pattern, whether you like that sort of thing or not. Barely a hint of character development, every movie has been Action, Action, Action, ever since. Even some of the Rom Coms. Oh, hehe, and who's Hannah Montana?


You're exactly right, which is why I RARELY find myself enjoying anything that isn't specifically comedy, where I know not to take anything seriously.

Then you were predisposed not to like this Star Wars before you bought your ticket.
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Offline Serenity

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2015, 03:37:35 PM »
Then you were predisposed not to like this Star Wars before you bought your ticket.

Was it too much to hope they might put more into it than that? There HAVE been a couple of decent movies since then...

Offline Devil 505

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2015, 04:23:23 PM »
I think you're focusing far too much on the negative aspects of the basic story and not really seeing the richness of character and mood that it ultimately delivers. Yes, the plot and settings are very derivative of A New Hope; yes, the pacing, editing, and camera work are much faster than the other films, yes, William's score was lost after the first act... but despite this movie felt like a Star Wars movie and not a cheap rip off of one, cough! - prequels! - cough!
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Offline Easyscor

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2015, 05:16:04 PM »
I remembered hearing this. Listen for the voice over from the April '15 teaser trailer #2. The scene didn't make this episode, but maybe there was enough concern to release it as an explanation any fan would have absorbed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCc2v7izk8w (for those without Flash)

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Offline Saxman

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2015, 05:38:47 PM »
Do you mean Luke's voiceover? Parts of it at least were sampled from his conversation with Leia in Jedi, the rest could have been recorded just for the teaser. Not entirely unusual.
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Offline branch37

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2015, 06:40:25 PM »
Overall I give the movie a B-  Too many cheesy jokes in the writing, and let us not forget that they killed off arguably the world's favorite character in a completely terrible and predictable way.  I mean as soon as we found out that the bad guy was Han's son it was pretty obvious what was going to happen in my opinion.  I did enjoy the movie though.  And it did resemble the plot in episode IV a little too much. 

Imagine if Leia had died instead of Han Solo, and Solo vows revenge against his son threatening to follow the path of Anakin Skywalker putting him at odds with Luke at some point.  Now there's an interesting thought. 

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Offline Saxman

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2015, 06:46:51 PM »
I mean as soon as we found out that the bad guy was Han's son it was pretty obvious what was going to happen in my opinion.

Right, because we TOTALLY got blind-sided that Obi-Wan was going to die when he went off alone to shut down the tractor beam.
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline Devil 505

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2015, 07:06:16 PM »
In the context of the film and the character, Han's death was a good one despite being predictable. He could have written off Ren as a lost cause and gone about his business. But he placed his faith in Leia and risked himself to turn Ren back; and paid with his life.

I also like how JJ dragged out the final scene, a lesser storyteller would have had Ren cut down Han the moment he drew his lightsaber. You still knew it was coming, but the scene lingered just long enough that you began to doubt your first instinct, then came the death blow. Perfectly timed.
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Offline Charge

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2015, 07:26:36 PM »
"I also like how JJ dragged out the final scene, a lesser storyteller would have had Ren cut down Han the moment he drew his lightsaber."

JarJar directed the film? It figures....

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Offline Devil 505

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2015, 07:38:07 PM »
"I also like how JJ dragged out the final scene, a lesser storyteller would have had Ren cut down Han the moment he drew his lightsaber."

JarJar directed the film? It figures....

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If I had called him Abrams, would you claimed the film was directed by a tank?  :devil
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Offline Rich46yo

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2015, 08:26:04 PM »
Well related, if you really need your sci-fi infusion on then dont miss "The Expanse" currently on Sy-Fy channel. Its a great story, I even bought the books which read really well.
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Offline branch37

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
« Reply #27 on: December 19, 2015, 10:43:50 PM »
Right, because we TOTALLY got blind-sided that Obi-Wan was going to die when he went off alone to shut down the tractor beam.

Never said it was unexpected.  I would have liked to have seen Han in the later movies that's all.  You have to admit he was the coolest character in all the movies combined.   

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Offline shotgunneeley

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
« Reply #28 on: December 19, 2015, 11:03:35 PM »
Saw it at the IMAX in Branson today. Overall I enjoyed the film, gave it an 8/10. Thought the visuals were great especially at Imax quality. I came in with an open mind ready to pick up where VI had left off as I had not been exposed to the EU.

I had actually expected Chewi to get killed saving Han from his son, then the following movies focusing on the two both trying to overcome their bitterness. Leia felt it immediately, so in all likeliness he is very well dead and will not be making some miraculous recovery. But hey, we never ACTUALLY saw a body - so ya never know!

Rey was too much of a Swiss army knife. Mechanics, self defence, flight operations, languages, control of the force... Like others have said, things just came way too easily for her. It's one thing to be focused and determined, quite another to just start controlling people and objects with your mind without any doubt or frustration. The whole relationship between Fin and Rey was a bit over the top. Would've been cool if she had dissed the Falcan by calling it a "piece of junk" to echo Luke rather than just "garbage".

I never really felt any sense of foreboding with the young sith lord as I did with Vader. Vader's menace was his inhuman detachment and cold self-control when dealing with failure - once the new guy started throwing temper tantrums and removing his mask, all of that was lost. Just no real suspense there. Probably inevitable we were going to learn he was Han and Leia's son, but I figured it would've been when they met at bridge towards the end. Yeah, so the son felt Han land on the planet but didn't feel him 20 feet behind him on the bridge? He turned out to be a very rookie sith.

If they were going to copy a plot line, better episode IV than I!




« Last Edit: December 19, 2015, 11:19:47 PM by shotgunneeley »
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Offline branch37

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
« Reply #29 on: December 19, 2015, 11:08:36 PM »




I never really felt any sense of foreboding with the young sith lord as I did with Vader. Vader's menace was his inhuman detachment and cold self-control when dealing with failure - once the new guy started throwing temper tantrums and removing his mask, all of that was lost. Just no real suspense there. Probably inevitable we were going to learn he was Han and Leia's son, but I figured it would've been when they met at bridge towards the end. Yeah, so the son felt Han land on the planet but didn't feel him 20 feet behind him on the bridge? He turned out to be a very rookie sith.

If they were going to copy a plot line, better episode IV than I!









He had Vader's style at the very beginning but then it kinda petered out as the movie went on.  IMO it would have been better to reveal his identity later in the series.  I loved the beginning of the movie when we had no clue who he was, like we did with Vader until Episode V. 

And while not my favorite Star Wars by far, much much much better than the prequels.     

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