Author Topic: Battle of Palmyra. Last words...  (Read 9880 times)

Offline Zimme83

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3073
Re: Battle of Palmyra. Last words...
« Reply #60 on: April 14, 2016, 12:42:40 PM »
I have a very good idea of what I'm talking about. In both cases.

I have still not met a single person with experience of war that would make that choice.
''The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge'' - Stephen Hawking

Offline PJ_Godzilla

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2661
Re: Battle of Palmyra. Last words...
« Reply #61 on: April 14, 2016, 12:43:26 PM »
I believe the point of questioning things is to find out the facts. Correct?

Not always. Often the point of questioning something is to try to elevate yourself by painting another as gullible.

However, accepting the argument, IF the questioning leads to meaningful development of evidence, as opposed to idly sniping at somebody from a smug and comfortable position of not offering any alternative narrative, then I'd agree.

Yet, somehow, here, I see nothing from the naysayers offering any evidence of much of anything - just repeated rejections from ignorance, no research required. What am I to make of that?

I should add - IN.
Some say revenge is a dish best served cold. I say it's usually best served hot, chunky, and foaming. Eventually, you will all die in my vengeance vomit firestorm.

Offline GScholz

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8910
Re: Battle of Palmyra. Last words...
« Reply #62 on: April 14, 2016, 01:12:41 PM »
I have still not met a single person with experience of war that would make that choice.

Well you have now... Or technically we haven't actually met so maybe not. I've watched people die in war. People I cared about. And I've watched people die of cancer. People I cared about. I wouldn't wish cancer on my worst enemy.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline rabbidrabbit

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3907
Re: Battle of Palmyra. Last words...
« Reply #63 on: April 14, 2016, 02:44:03 PM »
Well you have now... Or technically we haven't actually met so maybe not. I've watched people die in war. People I cared about. And I've watched people die of cancer. People I cared about. I wouldn't wish cancer on my worst enemy.

It does not matter what you say, he is just going to come back with a snarky response or sidestep.

Offline Zimme83

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3073
Re: Battle of Palmyra. Last words...
« Reply #64 on: April 14, 2016, 03:38:55 PM »
Well you have now... Or technically we haven't actually met so maybe not. I've watched people die in war. People I cared about. And I've watched people die of cancer. People I cared about. I wouldn't wish cancer on my worst enemy.

It is your opinion and i have respect it, i dont agree though. But I will leave it there, I dont see that anything constructive will come out of this debate. Ive taken it a bit too far already.
''The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge'' - Stephen Hawking

Offline GScholz

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8910
Re: Battle of Palmyra. Last words...
« Reply #65 on: April 14, 2016, 05:10:20 PM »
Zimme, if I may ask. Do you have personal experience with war and cancer?
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline guncrasher

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17360
Re: Battle of Palmyra. Last words...
« Reply #66 on: April 14, 2016, 05:16:21 PM »
scholz i have.  but there's a difference of opinion.  he respects yours.  respect his.


semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline GScholz

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8910
Re: Battle of Palmyra. Last words...
« Reply #67 on: April 14, 2016, 05:22:57 PM »
I'm trying to ascertain if he has an informed opinion.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline Zimme83

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3073
Re: Battle of Palmyra. Last words...
« Reply #68 on: April 14, 2016, 05:29:51 PM »
I'm trying to ascertain if he has an informed opinion.

I'm not going turn this into a contest about having the worst personal experiences. But it's clear that you and I do not have the same definition of the term 'war'.. (No, a tour in A-stan is not the same as having barrel bombs dropped over your neighborhood.)
''The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge'' - Stephen Hawking

Offline GScholz

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8910
Re: Battle of Palmyra. Last words...
« Reply #69 on: April 14, 2016, 05:56:43 PM »
Does being shelled every other day count?

In any case I'd rather watch a loved one get blasted by a barrel bomb than watch the person being tortured by her own body for six months while begging me to kill her. Years later and I still feel guilt and regret for not doing it. At least the suffering of my friends in Bosnia only lasted minutes.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline Zimme83

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3073
Re: Battle of Palmyra. Last words...
« Reply #70 on: April 14, 2016, 06:00:00 PM »
Does being shelled every other day count?

In any case I'd rather watch a loved one get blasted by a barrel bomb than watch the person being tortured by her own body for six months while begging me to kill her. Years later and I still feel guilt and regret for not doing it. At least the suffering of my friends in Bosnia only lasted minutes.

As I said, that's your opinion and I respect it even if I disagree.
''The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge'' - Stephen Hawking

Offline GScholz

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8910
Re: Battle of Palmyra. Last words...
« Reply #71 on: April 14, 2016, 06:01:22 PM »
Very well.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline Changeup

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5688
      • Das Muppets
Re: Battle of Palmyra. Last words...
« Reply #72 on: April 14, 2016, 09:58:47 PM »
I'm all for acknowledging their service, more to the point, rewarding it. Veteran care is one of the most odious things about the US.

However we also seem to have a romanticized/glorified view of war, and forget that in addition to the harm, both psychological and physical, it does to our own soldiers, but that their job is to kill other people.


Consider that Russian fellow who is alleged to have called an air strike on himself. The overwhelming response I've seen has been in the vein of  "oh that's bad ass." "That dude is so American, even if he's Russian", *waves rock-hard freedom boner around*.

He's no less dead for his heroism, his wife is no less heartbroken. His daughter still will grow up without a daddy because we haven't been able to move past killing each other as an acceptable solution to disagreements.

Or Chris Kyle. Yes the man was an accomplished sniper. He 100% killed kids. Was it justifiable? Absolutely. But a kid died because of the circumstances he grew up in, and Kyle happened to get him in the scope. Which is a horrible tragedy.

Point being we, as a culture, take far too little time to really try and understand what exactly war is.

Your last sentence is a tell.  War is one of the most studied, explored, dissected, investigated, and written-about topics in the history of literature.  SOME people romanticize war...some.  Not all.  You generalized ALL in your statement and that is simply incorrect.  There are millions of Chris Kyles with equally brutal realities.  You need look no further than Carlos Hathcock and the bicycle full of AK's.  Yes, another dead boy.  He also HUNTED "Apache"...the code name for the most brutal sniper/interrogator the VC had...and it was a woman.  You seem to be floating in a sea of poop and looking out of the boat and proclaiming your hatred for that one poop.  That one poop makes you mad.

All of these things are the nature of mankind.  Its unfortunate.  Its reckless.  Its unapologetic.  Its criminal.  Its sad.  Its not ever going to stop.  I don't say this because I like war, I say it because percentages are on my side that wars, struggles and conflicts will continue as long as the human element is top of the food chain.  And, because it has never ceased in the history of mankind. 

You're cherrypicking current events to support a position that is penalizing the players by hating the game.  Given your logic on soldier recognition, cops should be marginalized because crime sucks?  Firemen shouldn't be recognized because fires destroy lives and property?  This list is endless...those fellas are heros dude.  If for no other reason than they understood and volunteered to be called upon to catch bullets with their bodies in defense of their friends, allies and bystanders. 

"Such is the nature of war.  By protecting others, you save yourself."

"Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered.  Those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid.  Thus, the wise win before the fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Morihei Ueshiba

Offline GScholz

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8910
Re: Battle of Palmyra. Last words...
« Reply #73 on: April 14, 2016, 10:31:27 PM »
That was brilliant Changeup.  :cry
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline FLOOB

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3054
Re: Battle of Palmyra. Last words...
« Reply #74 on: April 15, 2016, 04:14:38 AM »
I agree with Bozon. It's either a true perfect story or a perfect story.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans” - John Steinbeck