Anyone using TIR?

[popeye]

Just started using TIR.  One thing I'm noticing is the head position for different views appears to be independent of my saved positions.  For instance, without TIR my "look back" position in the N1K2 is moved forward so that I can see quite a lot around the headrest.  With TIR enabled, the "look back" position is right up against the headrest so that I have to physically move my head to see around it (and then can't see as much as with no TIR).

Is this correct, or am I missing something?

[FLS]

Just started using TIR.  One thing I'm noticing is the head position for different views appears to be independent of my saved positions.  For instance, without TIR my "look back" position in the N1K2 is moved forward so that I can see quite a lot around the headrest.  With TIR enabled, the "look back" position is right up against the headrest so that I have to physically move my head to see around it (and then can't see as much as with no TIR).

Is this correct, or am I missing something?

That is correct behavior. When you scale the response curves in TIR you can easily get good views around the headrest. You can also disable the TIR axis except pitch and yaw and it will use your saved head positions but I prefer everything on except roll. 

[popeye]

I'll try the "pitch and yaw only" setup.   Thanks!   

[1stpar3]

I could never get the hang of AH hat switch views. I still cant wrap my head around why, when you have 6 axis of head tracking, you would still want to use hat switches for head placement settings. I know, its what most are use too. I use TIR only,not a single button or hat switch for views. It is just natural for me, turn head left look left, ect ect. To look around head rest Z axis curves are set to fairly fast. Lean a wee bit left or right and no head rest. Every curve in TIR is programmable. You can even set curves to be slower in response to head movement (dead zones) for first 110 degrees of movement, and then fast for the remainder till 180. Or just twitch head left and look at seat back. Every point along a given axis's curve is programmable. Like I said before, for me, TIR is just way more natural for me then using hat switches. Not saying my way is best, to each their own, but with a bit of tinkering its just like real life. Hard to understand how anyone would have un enjoyable experience with TIR. I really LOVE it. It was a life saver. I hear folk say they lose cons in dog fights, and don't get that either. I can keep track of any thing with extremely small head movements. Yes it requires some effort to program it to your specific needs, but it is well worth it. It just befuddles my mind as to why you wouldn't use the totality of the TIR system. Oh, they make a Trackclip to mount on a headset,if you don't like hats. It is way more accurate at tracking head movement too! That may be a lot of the issue with dissatisfaction? Even the camera can be placed in numerable different positions to work with just about any set up.Its well worth the extra bucks for the Track clip option,if you don't have it. I always buy that as well, no need to send a TIR system to someone and cut them off at the knees, by not including it. Pretty sure that  will cause me to regret that habit...one day!! When he gets it just right anyway! lol 

[popeye]

As I said, I'm new to TIR so haven't developed a good technique with it.

For me, the main difference between TIR and using specific views controlled with the hat is that with TIR I lose a sense of the attitude of my airplane since the TIR view is not "fixed" relative to the airplane as the "hat views" are.  I'm guessing that with practice and experience that problem can be overcome, but it's been a frustrating process.  Especially since I can switch back to the hat and feel much more in control.

I'm interested to see how the "pitch and yaw only" TIR integrates with the hat views.

[1stpar3]

As I said, I'm new to TIR so haven't developed a good technique with it.

For me, the main difference between TIR and using specific views controlled with the hat is that with TIR I lose a sense of the attitude of my airplane since the TIR view is not "fixed" relative to the airplane as the "hat views" are.  I'm guessing that with practice and experience that problem can be overcome, but it's been a frustrating process.  Especially since I can switch back to the hat and feel much more in control.

I'm interested to see how the "pitch and yaw only" TIR integrates with the hat views.

Right! I get you! In the curves section of TIR, start with the "dead zone" profile or second best for me the"smooth" under the motion adjustment panel, in axis- profiles tab at top of grid. You need to make sure the axis you are setting is the one indicated in the axis tab. With the deadzone profile the view will stay lock a bit before head movement will take effect. I use this deadzone profile in all axis to some degree or another, but its my starting point. Its set to pretty long delay in both YAW and PITCH. In Y I have the mirror unchecked so as to get slower response in sitting up or crouching(one to one )works ok as well. in X I have a small amoumt of dead zone but after that its really fast thru points along the curve, a slight lean and my in game lean is around 25 degrees, it isn't that far in game as cockpit will stop you, this makes it easy to look around nose or head rest with minimal chair yoga. Z is one to one for me, I don't use it as much, its zoom pretty much, lean forward or back, can help if head is set too close to instruments or headrest. I do not use the ROLL or true view. maybe this will help when you get around to setting your curves. In my center view,in game, I pause the TIR and scoot head about 2 or 3 touches on the up arrow, and as many pgup's till my gunsight is just under half way to top of reticle. This sets a descent back view distance from head rest.

[1stpar3]

An easy way to show how my curves work is this. In the Motion adjust tab where you see Axis box and profile box then the individual axis boxes? Pitch is selected.Mirror is checked then in the x y point boxes set the points to theses values, I am working from the NEGATIVE sid of the X graph,with mirror the other side will set by default: center or point zero set x to 0.0 y 0.0, point 1 set x-4.0 ,y0.0  other side of curve will automatically set as+ 4 , 0 : point 2 x -6.5 . 3.6 y   point 3  x -22.5 , y 6.0  point 4  x -30 , y 6.0. it will look like a wild curve way different from the base curves. but its how I have mine and may help out when you get around to experimenting with your own curves. You can in put the numbers into the boxes directly as long as you click on the corresponding dot on graph. so click on points in graph(left side of graph) and these values will set it up like I have it

[popeye]

Thanks for the info, I'll check out your curve.

But first...

I tried the "pitch and yaw only" TIR and it was VERY jerky.  Seemed like it was shifting from one static view to the next.  So, okay that didn't work.  Reset to my original curves with all DoF enabled and THEY are now jerky.  Not as bad as the P&YO, but not the smooth panning I had before.  Online and offline.  Even flying around without TIR turned on is now jerky.  Not sure what to think.  Is it possible that the trying the P&YO TIR has somehow corrupted the AH video interface?         

[1stpar3]

I wouldn't think so? The in game view system may have changed, as in VIEW MODE I believe its called? CONTROL I, where you see in game FPS. Pretty sure you know what I mean, you have been here longer than I,lol. It changes in my setup a lot, mainly from hitting the wrong buttons. I use to use the default Pause key with TIR which was F9, and changed view system from instant to pan. Could be the problem.?

[FLS]

Thanks for the info, I'll check out your curve.

But first...

I tried the "pitch and yaw only" TIR and it was VERY jerky.  Seemed like it was shifting from one static view to the next.  So, okay that didn't work.  Reset to my original curves with all DoF enabled and THEY are now jerky.  Not as bad as the P&YO, but not the smooth panning I had before.  Online and offline.  Even flying around without TIR turned on is now jerky.  Not sure what to think.  Is it possible that the trying the P&YO TIR has somehow corrupted the AH video interface?         

Could it be using snap views?

[FESS67]

Thanks for the info, I'll check out your curve.

But first...

I tried the "pitch and yaw only" TIR and it was VERY jerky.  Seemed like it was shifting from one static view to the next.  So, okay that didn't work.  Reset to my original curves with all DoF enabled and THEY are now jerky.  Not as bad as the P&YO, but not the smooth panning I had before.  Online and offline.  Even flying around without TIR turned on is now jerky.  Not sure what to think.  Is it possible that the trying the P&YO TIR has somehow corrupted the AH video interface?         

Let's fix the jerky issue first.  This would seem like a TIR issue rather than an in game one.  I would be checking for:

• Are there any light sources affecting TIR?  Look at the camera view in TIR and all you should see is the 3 dots for your clip reflectors.  If you see any other reflections in that view they can cause interference and make it appear jerky.  Eliminate the other light source or play with the sensitivity settings in TIR to filter it out
• Are you moving your head in such a manner that the tracking is lost?  Look at the light on the left of the TIR sensor on top of your monitor.  Notice if you look up too much the light will go out, meaning you have moved to an extent the sensor loses contact with the clip reflectors.  That will cause freezes in game views.

I have tried many TIR profiles and none of them are inherently jerky which is why I think it is a set up issue rather than a game issue.

[1stpar3]

Yes!! That would definitely cause the "JERKY"!  I didn't go there first,probably should have. I was going by the 2 axis use, still using hat switch, on snap it caused jumping and jerking for me, so I assumed. I know, nice pick up FESS! Assuming is like trusting a fart, ought to know better by now! lol

[N95KF]

I agree, it works great, but I use TIR only with no view buttons or hat switches involved. Never could get that down. All my hat switches are for other things. With adjustment you can get very precise head controls to cover every view possible without other buttons. Its all in the curves. Of coarse I don't have the muscle memory of playing AH with hat switch views only, so it was hard to compete with the long time players, until I found TIR!

I am the same way.  I grew up in the 90's using hat switches, and they were great back then.  But now I couldn't imagine using them to look.  I actually try playing once in a while without the TrackIR on, and when I make a turn I get dizzy because I am so used to peeking slightly left with my head to see forward/left on a turn that when the screen doesnt move I get dizzy.

I programmed hat switch up to autopilot climb mode, hat switch down autopilot level.  hat switch left - right is flaps up - down.  Some people use the hat switch as a trim tab if not using combat trim, which I believe is how certain real world aircraft operate.

[1stpar3]

I am the same way.  I grew up in the 90's using hat switches, and they were great back then.  But now I couldn't imagine using them to look.  I actually try playing once in a while without the TrackIR on, and when I make a turn I get dizzy because I am so used to peeking slightly left with my head to see forward/left on a turn that when the screen doesnt move I get dizzy.

I programmed hat switch up to autopilot climb mode, hat switch down autopilot level.  hat switch left - right is flaps up - down.  Some people use the hat switch as a trim tab if not using combat trim, which I believe is how certain real world aircraft operate.

ABSOLUTELY! Have you exited out of the game, to turn on TIR after take-off? In a DUCE!!!!! I have...cant leave home with out it. I know....DUMBASH!!! I hear that a lot, cant see flying without it, from a lot of guys. The ones who use it like we do anyway. Even some on my squad couldn't get into it, but those that did...lets just say trouble has happened. Somehow SQUAD LEADER even forgot to turn it on for an FSO frame, oops. Luckily he caught it before the fields closed lol Seems more of the long time players are the ones who dislike it. I am almost ready to give VR a try. I see a few complaints but hope its the same situation with some and TIR. Just adverse to change!

[TheRapier]

Sorry, have been fighting with some graphics card issues. Now I can look at this again.

My apologies, maybe I'm not getting how people are setting this, but I'm not at all seeing yet how this system is an improvement over the AHII system of the view key over riding the TIR. The ordering seems contrived and leaves it so there is NO reason to have view keys programmed at all. I started flying with the view keys back on AW in 1990 and I can still fall back to them easily. They are really a MMO flying sim standard. I use it for shooting and I use it for when TIR fails (as it will) during a critical moment. TIR is helpful for immersion but it definitely doesn't make you a better pilot until you equate head position to where you are looking from the plane.

I have tried FLS's idea of holding the right or left key to look around the headrest but its not working at all. I might as well have my head buried in a can for all the view that is possible. All you see is dark. How are you setting the rear view/X axis to get the movement? It will start to move outward and then just snap back to the center of the headrest, negating the whole point of TIR. Right now it seems like TIR's main functionality is ogling the landscape but it really should help you look around and fly the plane as a weapon. Don't get me wrong, I like the beauty of what I'm seeing but my appreciation would be much greater if I could hit what I was aiming at or see what was going to shoot me . 

View forward is equally hopeless for different reasons. It is almost impossible to hold my head absolutely still so that I have anything that looks like a gunsight. If you can't tell where the bullets are going you really can't be very accurate in gunnery. Try shooting a rifle without any sights or even a barrel to look down. That is what shooting is like now. Also, the guns appear to shoot very high from where they were in AHII.

So two questions would help me to understand how the view system is supposed to work:

• How do you accomplish looking around a headrest in the rear view, i.e. how to you lean out to the side?
  .
• How do you lock your head in a forward view so you can have a gunsight? Tiny variations in head movement put the center in the next county. You are left using the guns like a water hose and walking the stream into the target. That is super inefficient

I'm sure that the game would be much more enjoyable if these things can be figured out. Right now all the eye candy in the world can't make up for the functionality. I'm looking forward to figuring out how that works so that I can let other folks know.

Thanks!