Combat Trim

[Randy1]

BTW.  Anybody else notice the manual trim position if you use a slider is fairly consistent between planes now in AH3.  In AH2 the P-38 was pretty far forward on the slider but the P-51 was about half slider.  The P-38 is just over half way  in the AH3 P-38.

Might be I have a different calibration in AH3.

[bustr]

Some have postulated CT creates drag which effects gaining your top speed in dives. I can get a Yak 9u up over 500 from a 9000ft dive to the deck with CT off nose trimmed for 500. The Yak 9u holds that E longer running out at the end of the dive then if I do the same dive with CT on. I catch 262's with the spit16 doing the same thing.

[Gman]

I never use CT, I always manually trim since I fly a flap dependent plane like the P-38 and CT only hinders when I get into low speeds and/or deploy flaps.  It boils down to personal preference but I've always recommended that at least in the P-38, only use manual trim.

Same here, but with all aircraft, not just the P38.  I find that when using flaps combined with CT, that you're always having to...fight..the nose position by having to push ahead on the stick once the flaps come out, and that starts making the nose, and hence gunsight, bob and float around a lot more than when CT is off.  So, like others here, I have CT on a toggle on my throttle, and just pop it on to reestablish correct trim when I feel trim is getting wonky - although I do manually trim quite a bit, mainly elevator, I have vator/aileron trim on a hat, don't bother with rudder trim myself much.  I don't get how anyone can fly/fight with combat trim on if they use the flaps - as soon as they come down it's like I spend more time trying to fight against the CT/Flaps fighting against each other than fighting the enemy planes.  Having to put in so much down elevator in CT once the flaps are down feels very unintuitive and greatly affects shooting accuracy for me, always has.  Obviously some have figured it out, but I can't understand how, as you're obviously "pulling" hard if you're needing the flaps down, yet then you have to "push" in order to counter act the CT/Trim deal in order to keep your target in the right spot(s).

[Vudak]

So is there an advantage to turning CT off at a certain speed and leaving it there or do you really want to reset it throughout the fight?  For example TC used to advise toggling it off at around 315-325 on a Corsair which translated (pre-graphics update in 2007 or so) to being right around where the bottom the "L" in "ELV" was.  I stopped using it after the graphics update b/c I couldn't be that precise anymore. 

What's the theory behind trimming out several times and leaving it trimmed for high speed all through the flight envelope?  Wouldn't the latter present problems as well?  I mean, TC and others are quite successful with it, but I'm wondering about the theory behind it and what's happening to my plane by leaving it trimmed at high speed.

Thanks.

[Wiley]

So is there an advantage to turning CT off at a certain speed and leaving it there or do you really want to reset it throughout the fight?  For example TC used to advise toggling it off at around 315-325 on a Corsair which translated (pre-graphics update in 2007 or so) to being right around where the bottom the "L" in "ELV" was.  I stopped using it after the graphics update b/c I couldn't be that precise anymore. 

What's the theory behind trimming out several times and leaving it trimmed for high speed all through the flight envelope?  Wouldn't the latter present problems as well?  I mean, TC and others are quite successful with it, but I'm wondering about the theory behind it and what's happening to my plane by leaving it trimmed at high speed.

Thanks.

The reason I generally turn it off around 200 is that's generally where the flaps start coming out.  I kick it off around 200, then I am trimming nose down as I pop flaps.  I turn it off mostly because of the flaps forcing me to push forward a lot with CT on.  Secondarily I personally find if I'm riding the edge of stall with CT on, when I'm holding the stick perfectly still when going around a corner, as speed changes, the CT changes where the trim is which alters what the plane is doing just slightly without me moving the stick.  I find it makes it a lot easier for me to lose the edge and stall a wing in that situation, so that's why I turn it off.

If the guy starts to run and my speed goes over 250 or so, I turn it back on.  YMMV.

Wiley.

[Vudak]

When you say "I am trimming nose down" are you physically inputting down trim or do you just pop CT off and call it a day?

[Randy1]

Once manual trimming is second nature, CT, is somewhat like having training wheels on your bicycle.

Some other pluses for manual trim.  You can set any climb speed you want with manual trim.  Taking off can have a very smooth transition to auto climb if you do not use auto take off.  When dive bombing, manual trim can be set for a perfect slight down trim.

[FLS]

So is there an advantage to turning CT off at a certain speed and leaving it there or do you really want to reset it throughout the fight?  For example TC used to advise toggling it off at around 315-325 on a Corsair which translated (pre-graphics update in 2007 or so) to being right around where the bottom the "L" in "ELV" was.  I stopped using it after the graphics update b/c I couldn't be that precise anymore. 

What's the theory behind trimming out several times and leaving it trimmed for high speed all through the flight envelope?  Wouldn't the latter present problems as well?  I mean, TC and others are quite successful with it, but I'm wondering about the theory behind it and what's happening to my plane by leaving it trimmed at high speed.

Thanks.

 Have you read the trim article on the training site?    Trim

[Wiley]

When you say "I am trimming nose down" are you physically inputting down trim or do you just pop CT off and call it a day?

Ah sorry.  Manual trimming down.  When you pop flaps at speed, your nose wants to go up so you've got to compensate.

Wiley.

[AKQwik]

Landing with wheels down and two notches of flaps I always have to trim down.

[Vudak]

Have you read the trim article on the training site?    Trim

I hadn't. Thanks for the link. I don't use the auto trim for speed or angle unless I'm on climbout. I never thought of using them during a fight.

I do wonder if spending the time to learn how to optimally trim your ride throughout the flight envelope is more effective than simply learning one setting and how it makes the aircraft react during that same envelope?

I suppose you'd likely retain more E making minute adjustments with trim than less precise ones with elevator?

[FLS]

Trim is used to reduce work in the cockpit. Instead of holding the stick and rudder in position for your current speed and attitude, trim does it for you. It doesn't matter what you use to move your control surfaces, trim or stick or pedals, just center the ball for minimum drag. Using auto angle (shift x) will set your trim for your current speed. To see the effect of rudder trim on your speed just watch the speedometer as you yaw a little.

[weiser]

  I always use manual trim, with combat trim on the response is to slow, I can adjust manually quicker
therefore using less stick and reducing G's therefore able to keep more E.
  Not saying I'm a great pilot but seems to work for me, it will take time to remember where you trim
set is, I rely on elevator's more and have rudder peddles so no need to trim them, I keep them centered.
  I use aerlon trim when low slow and in a tight turn, but you have to again remember where you trim is set
once out of the fight.
<S>
weiser

[colmbo]

I use combat trim only for a quick trim adjustment -- just toggle it on and off as needed.  Most of the time I manually trim.

[Scca]

When you say "I am trimming nose down" are you physically inputting down trim or do you just pop CT off and call it a day?

Manual trim is likely better, but increases the work load, and you have to have trim wheels on your stick to get the most out of it.  That said, turning it on and off does improve things a bit especially when you're flying flap monsters like the F4U series. 

Back in the day when I spent time with a trainer, TC was a hog pilot and he trained me.  His advise was to turn combat trim off at 200 mph in a hog when the fight started to slow down.  It removed the constant fight with the stick you had when you were doing nose high maneuvers, and when you were really on the edge of a stall.  I was skeptical but noticed it the most when I was at the top of a loop trying to get a shot on someone.  With CT on, it would pitch over well beyond the input I was giving the stick, and frequently wouldn't even fly straight with the stick buried forward.  With CT off at the top of a loop, there may be a slight lead due to the current setting, but it was easily corrected for.  Some planes aren't as effected, but my advise is once the flaps come out, turn off CT. Trust me, you will see a difference, and a positive one.