Guns and Cops... and balls of steel

[Arlo]

A choice between one rifle or another means little. One semi or another. If someone wants to kill a lot of people just start with a crowd. Bad people are the problem, not the guns.
Some folks in their hate of guns simply help criminals ply their trade. You can bet criminals would love to be the only one armed.

I might be inclined to agree if what was being suggested was a 'we all hate guns and lets all just arm criminals' law. I don't hate guns. I hate massacres. And yes, bad people with unlimited access to rapid-fire, high capacity weapons with absolutely no regulation or restriction is indeed the problem.

[DmonSlyr]

I might be inclined to agree if what was being suggested was a 'we all hate guns and lets all just arm criminals' law. I don't hate guns. I hate massacres. And yes, bad people with unlimited access to rapid-fire, high capacity weapons with absolutely no regulation or restriction is indeed the problem.

That's why the only way to stop it is for you to have one on the other side. Remember, criminals don't care about the law or regulation or restriction. I'd rather have legal gun tenders determine if they want to sell a gun, rather than encourage black market gun dealers to sell them to anyone illegally.

Ohh and there's a real reason why Comey, McCabe, Baker and many more were fired.

[Shuffler]

I might be inclined to agree if what was being suggested was a 'we all hate guns and lets all just arm criminals' law. I don't hate guns. I hate massacres. And yes, bad people with unlimited access to rapid-fire, high capacity weapons with absolutely no regulation or restriction is indeed the problem.

Laws only affect the law abiding.

[Arlo]

Laws only affect the law abiding.

Au contraire. Here's an example:

Billy Joe Jim Bob decides he's in the mood to go shoot up first graders (easy targets, large kill count). On the way he's stopped by a policeman for not signaling left. The policeman notices BJJB's AR-15 in the back seat.

Policeman: Whats with the major weaponry, Billy Joe?

BJJB: Gonna shoot rabbits.

Policeman: It ain't rabbit season.

BJJB: Aw shucks. Thanks for reminding me. Guess I'm haulin' it `round fer nuthin'.

Policeman: Well, you drive safe and don't forget to signal.

BJJB: Never happen again.

So Billy Joe Jim Bob's second amendment rights are kept safe but later 25 first graders, 2 teachers, a principal and a sheriff's deputy all die because Billy Joe had an itch that needed scratchin'.

So, what would have happened if the policeman was allowed (even required) to ask Billy Joe for his license and registration for the gun as well as the car? Billy Joe has been arrested twice for beating his wife (and kids) and can't help posting on FB about how he just wants to kill people because he hates libtards and wetbacks and was actually sent to a mental facility once for threatening people on the street for wearing the color blue. Billy Joe didn't qualify to own that AR-15. It woulda had to been confiscated and possibly he woulda had to spend a lil time in the hoosgow.

If he had gone with plan B and decided to use a chainsaw instead he might have ended up doing more harm to himself than others (what a shame).

[Shuffler]

Au contraire. Here's an example:

Billy Joe Jim Bob decides he's in the mood to go shoot up first graders (easy targets, large kill count). On the way he's stopped by a policeman for not signaling left. The policeman notices BJJB's AR-15 in the back seat.

Policeman: Whats with the major weaponry, Billy Joe?

BJJB: Gonna shoot rabbits.

Policeman: It ain't rabbit season.

BJJB: Aw shucks. Thanks for reminding me. Guess I'm haulin' it `round fer nuthin'.

Policeman: Well, you drive safe and don't forget to signal.

BJJB: Never happen again.

So Billy Joe Jim Bob's second amendment rights are kept safe but later 25 first graders, 2 teachers, a principal and a sheriff's deputy all die because Billy Joe had an itch that needed scratchin'.

So, what would have happened if the policeman was allowed (even required) to ask Billy Joe for his license and registration for the gun as well as the car? Billy Joe has been arrested twice for beating his wife (and kids) and can't help posting on FB about how he just wants to kill people because he hates libtards and wetbacks and was actually sent to a mental facility once for threatening people on the street for wearing the color blue. Billy Joe didn't qualify to own that AR-15. It woulda had to been confiscated and possibly he woulda had to spend a lil time in the hoosgow.

If he had gone with plan B and decided to use a chainsaw instead he might have ended up doing more harm to himself than others (what a shame).

And?   What I said still stands.

It is against the law to kill others unless you are being attacked and you feel your life is in danger.

The school being a soft target puts it up higher on the list for demented individuals. They are helped by folks who believe that disarming the people who can protect their children is a grand idea.

It all comes back to the point that no one forces you to protect you and yours. It is a choice you are free to make. Just do not try to force other to make the same choice you may make.

[Arlo]

And?   What I said still stands.

It is against the law to kill others unless you are being attacked and you feel your life is in danger.

The school being a soft target puts it up higher on the list for demented individuals. They are helped by folks who believe that disarming the people who can protect their children is a grand idea.

It all comes back to the point that no one forces you to protect you and yours. It is a choice you are free to make. Just do not try to force other to make the same choice you may make.

But does it? Billy Joe hadn't killed anyone when he was stopped nor did he state his intent to.

[Arlo]

If there was a law requiring him to register/license and qualify then he would have been breaking the law (he would not be 'law abiding').

[bustr]

Bad Arlo, using a bubba as a writer's device to trip up your bubba audience into feeling personally attacked then possibly acting a fool in response to feed your narrative. Shuffler at least realized what you just did.

Yes the majority of mass shooters are white males in the US. Other than that, they are not bubbas and more likely to be nut cases on or off their meds, who didn't vote for a republican or attend a church regularly all their lives, if they ever bothered to vote. Many of our forum members are bubbas, and own firearms, and react poorly to feeling a personal affront to their constitutionally protected rights and freedoms. They don't deserve being painted this way becasue you have issues with gun laws.

The slippery slope you are dancing on led to the Venezuelan people today only able to throw rocks at the armed military of a dictator who run them over with trucks and shoot them in cold blood in the streets. That is why the second A exists in it's exact language, and people like Shuffler get ticked at writer's devices to subtly paint them poorly. It's easy to play with word structures and imagery to make fools of people's cherished liberties and rights with logical fallacies. Every 1st year pre-law, philosophy, and psych major can do it with their eyes closed since your average person is not vested in that kind of mind set or need to mess with the unsuspecting.

It's like the old one, so when did you stop beating your wife or, for gun owners, so when did you stop dreaming of slaughtering poor innocent first graders err oops bunnies with your evil AR15. your imagery is out there associated with easy access to AR15's and a bubba having a bad day which everyone knows bubbas just have bad days all the time becasue that's what bubbas are.

Pretty slick trick Arlo to trip up your poor dumb gun owning bubba audience who will probably rise to the veiled insults and give you pages of fun and existential bubba slaughter. Freedom comes with a heavy price, either we are all free or, we are Animal Farm. So which of us lives in the house and who toils in the feilds in your story? Shuffler where do you want to live on that farm?

[DmonSlyr]

Au contraire. Here's an example:

Billy Joe Jim Bob decides he's in the mood to go shoot up first graders (easy targets, large kill count). On the way he's stopped by a policeman for not signaling left. The policeman notices BJJB's AR-15 in the back seat.

Policeman: Whats with the major weaponry, Billy Joe?

BJJB: Gonna shoot rabbits.

Policeman: It ain't rabbit season.

BJJB: Aw shucks. Thanks for reminding me. Guess I'm haulin' it `round fer nuthin'.

Policeman: Well, you drive safe and don't forget to signal.

BJJB: Never happen again.

So Billy Joe Jim Bob's second amendment rights are kept safe but later 25 first graders, 2 teachers, a principal and a sheriff's deputy all die because Billy Joe had an itch that needed scratchin'.

So, what would have happened if the policeman was allowed (even required) to ask Billy Joe for his license and registration for the gun as well as the car? Billy Joe has been arrested twice for beating his wife (and kids) and can't help posting on FB about how he just wants to kill people because he hates libtards and wetbacks and was actually sent to a mental facility once for threatening people on the street for wearing the color blue. Billy Joe didn't qualify to own that AR-15. It woulda had to been confiscated and possibly he woulda had to spend a lil time in the hoosgow.

If he had gone with plan B and decided to use a chainsaw instead he might have ended up doing more harm to himself than others (what a shame).

You just discribed how and why these attacks are created.

1. Soft targets - Why would a person angry at libtards shoot up a place full of innocent people who have nothing to do with their outrage? The easy answer is using your emotions to change the laws. Churches and schools especially are emotional targets. A person mad at the government would not shoot a school or church, unless they wanted to have guns banned. The school should have never let them enter in the first place. My schools were always under severe surveillance. It's the schools responsibility to protect the students.

2. Every shooter who commits mass attrocities were under psychiatric care and medication. Why is that?

3. No mass shooting is ever random. People don't decide to mass shoot a school one day. They are always planned.

4. Guaranteed his FB post would have been flagged and sent to the FBI. They use FB to paint a picture of a suspect so that they can manipulate you into being on one side or the other. Nick Cruz's FB was a clear manipulation.

5. Where are their friends? Where are their groups? Where are their parents? Spouting this crap on FB means someone has to on the receiving end of his post. They never have any connections to any one else. Isn't that strange?

You aren't asking enough questions and are letting them take advantage of your thoughts and emotions using these calculated attacks of fear.

[2bighorn]

Au contraire. Here's an example:

Billy Joe Jim Bob decides he's in the mood to go shoot up first graders (easy targets, large kill count). On the way he's stopped by a policeman for not signaling left. The policeman notices BJJB's AR-15 in the back seat.

Policeman: Whats with the major weaponry, Billy Joe?

BJJB: Gonna shoot rabbits.

Policeman: It ain't rabbit season.

BJJB: Aw shucks. Thanks for reminding me. Guess I'm haulin' it `round fer nuthin'.

Policeman: Well, you drive safe and don't forget to signal.

BJJB: Never happen again.

So Billy Joe Jim Bob's second amendment rights are kept safe but later 25 first graders, 2 teachers, a principal and a sheriff's deputy all die because Billy Joe had an itch that needed scratchin'.

So, what would have happened if the policeman was allowed (even required) to ask Billy Joe for his license and registration for the gun as well as the car? Billy Joe has been arrested twice for beating his wife (and kids) and can't help posting on FB about how he just wants to kill people because he hates libtards and wetbacks and was actually sent to a mental facility once for threatening people on the street for wearing the color blue. Billy Joe didn't qualify to own that AR-15. It woulda had to been confiscated and possibly he woulda had to spend a lil time in the hoosgow.

If he had gone with plan B and decided to use a chainsaw instead he might have ended up doing more harm to himself than others (what a shame).

It seems you're not familiar with firearms laws (most of law abiding firearms owners are).

In most states, transporting a firearm in a manner Billy Joe Jim Bob does, is illegal.
In most states, when transporting a firearm in a manner Billy Joe Jim Bob does, law enforcement is authorized to inspect firearm for compliance.

He would most likely be arrested for violating firearms transportation laws and being a prohibited person in possession of a firearm (or shot if he did something stupid after PO noticed the AR-15).

All the necessary (and unnecessary) firearms laws are already in place. They just need to be enforced better.

I'm California resident. California has some of the most restrictive firearms laws. They enacted even more anti 2A laws after San Bernardino shooting.
None of that prevented all the mass shootings since San Bernandino.
None of the gun control laws enacted before, did prevent any of that either.

Insane people don't care about firearm laws. Criminals don't care either.

[Arlo]

Insane people don't care about firearm laws. Criminals don't care either.

Or vehicle codes/laws or anything .... but that doesn't mean such serves no purpose.

[Arlo]

Bad Arlo, using a bubba as a writer's device ...

I live in Billy Joe Jim Bob central. 

[Shuffler]

But does it? Billy Joe hadn't killed anyone when he was stopped nor did he state his intent to.

In your eyes maybe not..... but I consider anyone going to kill folks a criminal.

Very unlikely, although possible, that he has never given warnings. Most of the killers before gave plenty of warnings but because of PC nothing was done. Most could have been prevented. It didn't occur because the person had a gun. It happened because the person had issues. Issues far before he ever acquired a gun.

Blaming this on any gun and a gun in particular is ridiculous. Of all the thousands of rifles of this style.... far less than 1% have probably been used to kill anyone illegally much less groups.. Maybe less than cars used for the same.

[2bighorn]

Or vehicle codes/laws or anything .... but that doesn't mean such serves no purpose.

They do have a purpose, but after certain point, additional laws won't fix the root of the problem. They just add unnecessary burden, or worse, criminalize law abiding citizens.

In US, some 37,000 people die in car accidents every year. I don't think extra laws would change that.

Same applies to firearm laws. All the common sense firearm laws are already in place.  Anti-gun people just aren't aware of them.

[Arlo]

In your eyes maybe not..... but I consider anyone going to kill folks a criminal.

You're better at being the thought police than most, then. Even with Bighorn's assurance that there are already laws in place to stop and inspect such weapons seen in the open, I've seen too many open carry 'protests' without such. The weapon of choice, time and again for mass shooting, is the AR-15. A semi-auto AK (47 or 74) qualifies, as well.

So, we're all law-abiding types on this forum. 'A well regulated militia' (gun owners dealing with reasonable regulation - be it licensing, regular qualification, background checks, etc .) should not be a problem. People unwilling to comply with such, be it due to criminal intent or irresponsible behavior, would indeed find this law inconvenient (just like people who drive drunk or without insurance or without annual registration or inspection or a valid driver's license - it applies to those following the code and those not).