The future of the game: let's help write it

[Rocco]

Here's my 2 cents being a relatively new join and younger than average (35). The reason I tried it out was 100% the scale and freedom. There are nicer looking and more realistic WWII sims out there, but none I found that had 24/7 persistent dynamic arenas that could hold 100's of pilots and with the full selection of aircraft available from the beginning (other than a handful of perked). That's why I tried it.

How I found AH was a bit of a journey. I was itching for a multiplayer flight sim as I was sick of just fighting AI. Hated the arcade style multiplayer games and the short, single engagement match play. I remembered seeing my Uncle playing Airwarrior years ago so I did some google searching and that led me to AH. My point is I only found AH because I was already aware of and searching for its predecessor.

When I started I liked that there was nothing that put me at a disadvantage being a new player other than my severe lack of skill. No grinding to unlock better airframes, weapons or boosts. I also liked that I could do whatever I wanted. There were no set objectives, if I wanted to try to capture a base I could, if I wanted to defend I could, if I wanted to bomb a factory I could, try to torpedo a CV I could, just furball I could. complete sandbox. The subscription model made me hesitate a lot but considering the scale I decided it was worth it.

I stayed these last 4 years for several reasons. My squad (who I originally reached out to so I could try FSO), FSO, scenarios, and just being able to jump on at any time and try to get a little better at an aspect of the game. I was several months into the game before I knew about FSO and scenarios. I didn't know about this forum and had only heard the odd mention in game. To be honest if I hadn't found the forum and my squad I probably wouldn't have stuck around much longer. Perhaps a link to the forum in the starting menu would help with that?

I had a lot of things going for me that helped keep me here. I was already into flight sims so I had some of the basic gear (joystick) and knew how to fly. I can be really stubborn, I will keep reupping and throwing myself into a fight to try to figure out why I keep bursting into flames so fast, and with the hope I'll learn enough to survive just a little longer this time. High end ultra realistic graphics have never been a deciding feature for me. All of these are road blocks for most younger gamers. Most casual gamers I know bounce from game to game so they look for ones that are easy to pick up the basics, don't require any special equipment (yes AH can be played with a mouse and keyboard but not easily/intuitively IMO), and have lots of eye candy. They described AH graphics as 'ok, not AAA'.

In my opinion tweaking gameplay will only affect how many veteran players leave or come back. Most new players don't get far enough into the game to even notice these things. My suggestion to attract and keep new players would be advertising through twitch streams, more youtube videos, a discord server, maybe hiring a streamer with a big following already to do a feature, stuff like that. And not just advertise the game itself, but FSO and the other special events. Then a series of tutorial missions that go through takeoff, gunnery, dropping bombs, etc. that are easily accessible, but not mandatory, will help them learn the basics. Even "help" prompts in game that can be turned off would work (press '+' to throttle up, Remember to raise your gear with 'G', fire your guns with 'spacebar'). A bit of hand holding off the beginning would go a long way for the average gamer.

I think that would help bring in some ppl but the biggest problem these days is that flight sims in general are a niche market and WWII combat a niche within a niche. There just aren't a ton of ppl interested in this kind of game anymore, and the ones that might be either hit one of the roadblocks mentioned or don't even know AH exists.

[dieter]

Well said Rocco.  I myself found the predecessor to this game (Warbirds) by looking continuously for an online WW2 sim, and it wasn't fast.  To me, getting new players means you have to have someone that is willing to help when there are questions.  The tutorial videos on how to set things up, how to take off, etc., are absolutely the minimum.  The next problem is you need people willing to help when someone asks for help.  There are many who either ignore, or give sarcastic responses being playful, or just being an ass.  "How do I put out flaps?" .... "Alt-F4" hehehe.  But this first part of the learning curve is the hardest.  I have tried most other sims, and I think AHIII is the best hands down compromise between trying to manage the aircraft, and fight.  I don't care about eye candy if the gameplay sucks. The need for advertising is not to be diminished, but I also think the learning curve issue should be addressed.  I had hoped there would be a training squadron when I first started to play this game online, but I don't have any good ideas as to how to make that work.  I try to tell players how to use the game functions when I think they might not know it, but there is not a good clearing house for all commands and functions in the game and how to use them.  There seems to be a reluctance among us old farts to teach people how to do something better. 

As for the GV issue.  Well the existence of them in the game is a source of a fair amount of contention.  There are obviously many different options for how to address them.  I would like to offer a few thoughts. 

1.  In the second world war tanks made noise that was unmistakable. 
2.  High speed aircraft did often miss tanks and vehicles hiding under vegetation, (cue the Storch and the allied equivalent).

Those two points being considered, the Dar square is not a bad response, (I would personally opt for a wedge that extends the direction of the tank, that narrows as you approach a base).  Although noise can be a little more directional, (can be for you who want to argue).  The next thing I would do is make the Storch able to see the tanks at the old ranges, (3K?), but nothing else gets that range of icons, only the Storch.   Also if you shoot a Storch down, let it burn for five or so minutes as a living memorial to where you are.  I think this will combine the reporting aspects of people on the ground hearing the tanks (DAR square), with the reality of a high speed aircraft looking for vehicles.  Obviously you could make the arguement that if you are below a certain speed, you should be able to see it, but that's a lot more coding. 

Anyway, my two cents

ULDieter  (Deeeeeter, like Peter, not Dieter like an unhappy fat guy)
 

[CptTrips]

I think that would help bring in some ppl but the biggest problem these days is that flight sims in general are a niche market and WWII combat a niche within a niche. There just aren't a ton of ppl interested in this kind of game anymore

I don't want to disagree with anything you said, but I might suggest putting a bit finer point on this.

High fidelity WWII combat flight sims are a niche within a niche.  Still, IL2 can grab several million sales per release.  And will again here soon at end of summer. 
It is not primarily a online game, but no one could reasonably describe it as an easy-mode kiddie game.  It is a high fidelity flight model WWII combat sim that will sell millions of copies.  The market isn't as big as Battlefield or Call of Duty, but it isn't nothing.  If AH could entice 1/1000 of that number, it's worries would be over.

So when you say "people aren't interesting in this kind of game anymore" maybe "this kind of game" should really be clarified as online 3-sided Air Warrioresque Melee grind arena for 15$/month subscription.  There still seems to be people interested in high-fidelity flight model WWII air combat.

Maybe the scenario would be better to emphasize as the core product.  Their depth and professionalism truly make them a unique differentiator.  (Maybe some mid-week options?
 Many people head to the lake or parties on Fri and Sat nights. Unless you are a married Dad who doesn't have a boat.  )

The Melee? Meh.  That can be a side practice arena for between frames.

[SpinDoc1]

Here's my 2 cents being a relatively new join and younger than average (35). The reason I tried it out was 100% the scale and freedom. There are nicer looking and more realistic WWII sims out there, but none I found that had 24/7 persistent dynamic arenas that could hold 100's of pilots and with the full selection of aircraft available from the beginning (other than a handful of perked). That's why I tried it.

How I found AH was a bit of a journey. I was itching for a multiplayer flight sim as I was sick of just fighting AI. Hated the arcade style multiplayer games and the short, single engagement match play. I remembered seeing my Uncle playing Airwarrior years ago so I did some google searching and that led me to AH. My point is I only found AH because I was already aware of and searching for its predecessor.

When I started I liked that there was nothing that put me at a disadvantage being a new player other than my severe lack of skill. No grinding to unlock better airframes, weapons or boosts. I also liked that I could do whatever I wanted. There were no set objectives, if I wanted to try to capture a base I could, if I wanted to defend I could, if I wanted to bomb a factory I could, try to torpedo a CV I could, just furball I could. complete sandbox. The subscription model made me hesitate a lot but considering the scale I decided it was worth it.

I stayed these last 4 years for several reasons. My squad (who I originally reached out to so I could try FSO), FSO, scenarios, and just being able to jump on at any time and try to get a little better at an aspect of the game. I was several months into the game before I knew about FSO and scenarios. I didn't know about this forum and had only heard the odd mention in game. To be honest if I hadn't found the forum and my squad I probably wouldn't have stuck around much longer. Perhaps a link to the forum in the starting menu would help with that?

I had a lot of things going for me that helped keep me here. I was already into flight sims so I had some of the basic gear (joystick) and knew how to fly. I can be really stubborn, I will keep reupping and throwing myself into a fight to try to figure out why I keep bursting into flames so fast, and with the hope I'll learn enough to survive just a little longer this time. High end ultra realistic graphics have never been a deciding feature for me. All of these are road blocks for most younger gamers. Most casual gamers I know bounce from game to game so they look for ones that are easy to pick up the basics, don't require any special equipment (yes AH can be played with a mouse and keyboard but not easily/intuitively IMO), and have lots of eye candy. They described AH graphics as 'ok, not AAA'.

In my opinion tweaking gameplay will only affect how many veteran players leave or come back. Most new players don't get far enough into the game to even notice these things. My suggestion to attract and keep new players would be advertising through twitch streams, more youtube videos, a discord server, maybe hiring a streamer with a big following already to do a feature, stuff like that. And not just advertise the game itself, but FSO and the other special events. Then a series of tutorial missions that go through takeoff, gunnery, dropping bombs, etc. that are easily accessible, but not mandatory, will help them learn the basics. Even "help" prompts in game that can be turned off would work (press '+' to throttle up, Remember to raise your gear with 'G', fire your guns with 'spacebar'). A bit of hand holding off the beginning would go a long way for the average gamer.

I think that would help bring in some ppl but the biggest problem these days is that flight sims in general are a niche market and WWII combat a niche within a niche. There just aren't a ton of ppl interested in this kind of game anymore, and the ones that might be either hit one of the roadblocks mentioned or don't even know AH exists.

AKRocco: I really like your response, I think it definitely keys in on some of the "niche"-ness of this product. But I do think there's room to bring in new players. Advertising certainly plays a role. But then there's attention-grabbing. To parallel: Tesla, the car company, doesn't do any advertising. Their meteoric rise is in having a niche product that they brought mainstream. They have a dedicated fanbase with legions of people who fell in love with the technology, as well as the proprietor.

I'm not saying HTC needs to be Tesla, what I am saying though is that you make a good point about getting the word out via Twitch, Discord, etc. I also think that the system for joining a squadron needs to be advertised better IN-GAME! In any arcade-style or RPG-style game that has a popular following, you can see it all in-game. Clash of Clans, join a Clan. Eve Online, join a corp. Aces High? - make friends on the forum, pass a (subjective) personality test, and then get a custom invite in-game. How about a system which enables people to search for squadrons in-game; we could put up welcome statements, incentives to join, show art/heraldry for the unit, etc.

I don't want to disagree with anything you said, but I might suggest putting a bit finer point on this.

High fidelity WWII combat flight sims are a niche within a niche.  Still, IL2 can grab several million sales per release.  And will again here soon at end of summer. 
It is not primarily a online game, but no one could reasonably describe it as an easy-mode kiddie game.  It is a high fidelity flight model WWII combat sim that will sell millions of copies.  The market isn't as big as Battlefield or Call of Duty, but it isn't nothing.  If AH could entice 1/1000 of that number, it's worries would be over.

So when you say "people aren't interesting in this kind of game anymore" maybe "this kind of game" should really be clarified as online 3-sided Air Warrioresque Melee grind arena for 15$/month subscription.  There still seems to be people interested in high-fidelity flight model WWII air combat.

Maybe the scenario would be better to emphasize as the core product.  Their depth and professionalism truly make them a unique differentiator.  (Maybe some mid-week options?
 Many people head to the lake or parties on Fri and Sat nights. Unless you are a married Dad who doesn't have a boat.  )

The Melee? Meh.  That can be a side practice arena for between frames.

Also a good post Trips. I think the buzz surrounding these games can drive a lot in terms of sales. In AH, the subscription model can work, but I think combined with the ideas above, where people really WANT to come back day after day, they enjoy all the social aspects of the game in addition to the gameplay. Perhaps a focus on social engagement, Twitch/YouTube, etc. combined with some targeted advertising would be the right answer.

In today's era, where we are going to be stuck indoors more for the foreseeable future, we really need to get into the social aspects of AH gameplay. I'm hoping some of these thoughts stick and can be turned into reality.

I'm too dang busy with work and family life to do a dedicated Twitch channel, but maybe in retirement I can get to it. I would LOVE to provide some entertainment for the community and perhaps drag some new friends into the mix too!

[Spikes]

I've been trying to get events out there more and more. I try to stream FSO if the mission permits, Nefarious streams the Blitz Week from bomber perspective to the AH Events FB page. I've been able to work with HT and get some event exposure onto the main website page. The problem with streaming is it really just isn't a very stream friendly game, especially events. Too slow paced for 5-10 minutes of total action.

Myself and a few from my squad also have made some new game videos (something that I think definitely dried up for a while) and I see guys like DLO and Trev make them also, which is good.

I think the biggest thing is general exposure. It's also difficult to match the mob funded games like Warthunder, IL2, Wargaming games in terms of advertising. It would be awesome if one of the big YouTubers would spend a week creating some game content for AH or stream it for a week. At this point that would sadly cost money as most won't do it without getting paid to.

Agree with the above posts though - it's a niche game inside of a niche market which is seeing a decline in interest all around. Sure there are WWII releated games like War Thunder, World of Tanks, World of Warships...but people aren't really playing those for the WWII factor.

[CptTrips]

I've been trying to get events out there more and more. I try to stream FSO if the mission permits, Nefarious streams the Blitz Week from bomber perspective to the AH Events FB page.

Shrug. We've had several talented Youtubes and Twitchers from the community over the years.  HTC has a youtube channel.  It hasn't been updated in over a year, but its there.

I think the problem is that is weak tool for discoverability.  Not so bad for promotion once they know about your game.

I don't do Twitch, but don't most people looks for someone playing a game they are interested in? Like "Yo, I wanna watch some GTA twitches!" If they have never heard of AH, how easy is it to accidentally run across AH Twitch feeds?

And live streaming?  I dunno.  Does that put our best foot forward?  A lot of flying around on auto pilot staring at a clipboard map?  Lets get them to download it first before they find that out.     

At least your videos edit all the snooze and just has the money shots. 

[Spikes]

Shrug. We've had several talented Youtubes and Twitchers from the community over the years.  HTC has a youtube channel.  It hasn't been updated in over a year, but its there.

I think the problem is that is weak tool for discoverability.  Not so bad for promotion once they know about your game.

I don't do Twitch, but don't most people looks for someone playing a game they are interested in? Like "Yo, I wanna watch some GTA twitches!" If they have never heard of AH, how easy is it to accidentally run across AH Twitch feeds?

And live streaming?  I dunno.  Does that put our best foot forward?  A lot of flying around on auto pilot staring at a clipboard map?  Lets get them to download it first before they find that out.     

At least your videos edit all the snooze and just has the money shots. 

I agree - but it's the only way for us to feasibly advertise the events (being live streaming) in any sort of media capacity. I don't have the time or willpower to be honest to go in and chop up an FSO video into a 5 minute summary. I think I've seen a couple guys do that in the past. It definitely is not the most entertaining thing, but it is raw gameplay which some people like. The MA is a lot more suitable for streaming, and even that has its own issues.

My videos definitely are not as great 'shot wise' as guys like Dolby, Sukov, and LePape I think? But at least I can crank the graphics up and even when watching some shots in the film viewer I think 'wow, this game is very pretty when the graphics are cranked up'. But others are much more talented with the film viewer than I.

As for twitch, yeah it is definitely a pre-determined thing for most. Most have their streamers they like for specific games. I doubt many people will realistically try a new game by watching a stream of it for a while. They'd be more inclined to try it if the streamer they like recommends it or is playing it and is enjoying him/herself.

[The Fugitive]

The above fixes for GV's will IMHO drive people away rather than encourage more. It sounds great if your bombing a   gv but riding in one and getting nailed every trip is what makes me log off.

Im pretty sure that the vis range for a moving GV and a stopped GV are set separately. A moving GV would be loud and in most cases leave tracks and/or dust clouds. Allowing the Planes to SEE them on the more is more realistic, and being harder to find when stopped in some trees as well.

The old setting Id like to see come back was how it was set in AHII. When "Greebo"s "crater" map was up we would have close to 100 players in tanks in that center crater fighting it out. Those battles were epic, and yes even with the high crater walls there you'd have guys trying to bomb the GVs, but as Devil said when you had planes doing the gv hunt thing, you always had fights looking to shoot them down. Gv fights these days with a half dozen/ dozen players are nothing.

they have 2 weeks with all the plane available and they don't stick around for more than 15 minutes.  what does 5 free planes gonna accomplish?

semp

Yup and I'll bet you the majority of those new players try the game, get hammered for a couple hours and say to themselves "screw this! Im never going to be any good in 2 weeks!" and poof they are gone. If they KNOW that it wont cost them anything maybe they would stay longer, long enough to learn a few things. And even if they dont, it may bump the numbers enough to entice other players to play more often and get those more interested to sign up. Giving away a few planes/GVs in the main arena isnt going to hurt anything and shouldnt cost anything more than the time it takes to set it up. I only see pluses to it.

I've been trying to get events out there more and more. I try to stream FSO if the mission permits, Nefarious streams the Blitz Week from bomber perspective to the AH Events FB page. I've been able to work with HT and get some event exposure onto the main website page. The problem with streaming is it really just isn't a very stream friendly game, especially events. Too slow paced for 5-10 minutes of total action.

Myself and a few from my squad also have made some new game videos (something that I think definitely dried up for a while) and I see guys like DLO and Trev make them also, which is good.

I think the biggest thing is general exposure. It's also difficult to match the mob funded games like Warthunder, IL2, Wargaming games in terms of advertising. It would be awesome if one of the big YouTubers would spend a week creating some game content for AH or stream it for a week. At this point that would sadly cost money as most won't do it without getting paid to.

Agree with the above posts though - it's a niche game inside of a niche market which is seeing a decline in interest all around. Sure there are WWII releated games like War Thunder, World of Tanks, World of Warships...but people aren't really playing those for the WWII factor.

I agree the game needs a LOT more exposure. Social media is the "in thing" and where MOST gamers get their first taste of info on a game. Hitech had a girl doing it for what a few weeks? I wish we knew what happened there. There needs to be more "real time" info available on the media channels. The channel I had going for a few months was picking up steam, it just needed other players to pick up posting on it has I'm not on 24/7.

New videos are great too as long as they are shared across media accounts. We dont need a bunch of kill shot videos, but an intense fight sequence. 5 or 6 turns to get into position and then the kill. No picking, no vulching, but real fights to show the "action" that they could have too.

[Wiley]

High fidelity WWII combat flight sims are a niche within a niche.  Still, IL2 can grab several million sales per release.  And will again here soon at end of summer.

I think your point you've made elsewhere is critical about IL2 though.  Number of copies sold vs number of people playing it online PVP, very tiny percentage plays it online.  I think that's a major factor.

Wiley.

[guncrasher]

Yup and I'll bet you the majority of those new players try the game, get hammered for a couple hours and say to themselves "screw this! Im never going to be any good in 2 weeks!" and poof they are gone. If they KNOW that it wont cost them anything maybe they would stay longer, long enough to learn a few things. And even if they dont, it may bump the numbers enough to entice other players to play more often and get those more interested to sign up. Giving away a few planes/GVs in the main arena isnt going to hurt anything and shouldnt cost anything more than the time it takes to set it up. I only see pluses to it.

hitech himself has said that the majority try it for 15 min.  dont think they get hammered that much in that short period of time.

[CptTrips]

I think your point you've made elsewhere is critical about IL2 though.  Number of copies sold vs number of people playing it online PVP, very tiny percentage plays it online.  I think that's a major factor.

As I pointed out, it is not primarily an online game.  However, the point I'm making in this thread is, there are people interested high fidelity flight model WWII combat games.

So yes, there are other factors blocking them such as online PVP, subscription model, graphics, 3-sided non-historicity, etc.

But being high fidelity WWII air combat isn't the problem, for those millions buying IL2. 

I just wanted to clarify that so we understood where the friction lies.

[The Fugitive]

hitech himself has said that the majority try it for 15 min.  dont think they get hammered that much in that short period of time.

How many times have you seen a new guy up under a capped field? You can get hammered a lot in 15 minutes, but it isnt just dying a hundred times in 15 minutes it these guys admitting to themselves that 2 weeks isnt nearly enough time to get to fly and land a plane let alone get a kill or even survive more than a pass or two.

Can you think of a down side to having a few free planes and gvs in the main arena?

[LCADolby]

Having seen the bit about youtube.. Big tubers feature it once or twice then move on, pretty sure its because there's no money in it.. I dont know how they (youtubers) do it. I need £750 (near as makes no different $1000) per month just to survive, and youtube for all the years I've used it, only £5 in adrev, that's 25p a year.. can't pay the bills on that. When I found my films were even used on webpages to promote the game, I didn't see a penny to give me incentive..
There isn't enough people willing to invest in an AH youtuber or Streamer, even if one of us here wanted to do it full time for AH.
Channels take time to build, especially with YouTube's algorithms and little to no investment. Plus finding someone with the energy after working all week to also have high talent at flying, filming and the charisma to build an AH youtube/stream following quickly is almost impossible. Youtubing and streaming it appears will just remain a little side hobby to our AcesHigh hobby.

[DmonSlyr]

Yeah, I've tried to do Twitch before but the free video maker programs I've tried never seem to be able to get twitch to work. I've been that close. But a white screen blocked the twitch feed. Not sure what happened to Ciaphas, but him and I were trying to get me set up and it just wouldn't work. Every time I try it, it doesnt work for me. Id love to have a channel were people could watch how I fight. I feel it would help players a lot.

Maybe one of these days....

[guncrasher]

How many times have you seen a new guy up under a capped field? You can get hammered a lot in 15 minutes, but it isnt just dying a hundred times in 15 minutes it these guys admitting to themselves that 2 weeks isnt nearly enough time to get to fly and land a plane let alone get a kill or even survive more than a pass or two.

Can you think of a down side to having a few free planes and gvs in the main arena?

paying subscribers switching to free planes.


semp