The so called "Dueling Arena" is a JOKE!

[DmonSlyr]

We aren't knocking you for that Brah, we feel the same way. It's just your reasoning methods are sometimes unsound. No good thinking deeply but incorrectly.

Aside from the request to get some concession for the ACM-crowd. Let me repectully try to illustrate:-


Something happeneing at the same time doesn't evidence or prove that was the cause because there may be other factors in play. In this specific case there were known other factors in play which, some of which I heard first-hand from the sources because I spoke to many of the players who - like me - basically lived there. That's not proof either, it is evidence. If you don't have that information but someone else does then their evidence must be considered (NOT listened to blindly).


You are recalling incorrectly. The old DA did not make it through to AH3. Just as the Main Arena became the Mellee Arena, then the DA became the MPA. Therefore your inference is based on a flawed premise. Logically the decline could not have been caused by the water because it was already gone before the change to the water. I could be wrong about the order of events myself. I'd then have to withdraw my understanding (and opinion) and revise it. The easiest person to fool is yourself. Feynman said that.


And we agree it doesn't work, but it's not a fact, it's an opinion. We are campaigning to try and have it changed, but it's hard to convince people who don't care, or whom it won't affect.

The most common flaw in thinking is to form a hypothesis and then look for evidence to support it, dismissing data which challenges it. Ought to be the other way around.

 

My methods are based on pure experience in these types of arenas for 15 years. They are practical and represent what I've seen as successful over the years in quick action arenas. I dont see how they are unsound in the least, atleast compared to what we have now. It takes 0 coading for my interpretation of how the arena should be in my view. All of the parts of the game are there. It just needs to be implemented. I posted most of those solutions on the first page which are far more simple than the current match play setup.

I distinctly remember the water being a major issue after the switch to AH3. I dont have time right now, but will search back to some of my post to see if I wrote something about it during that time. Sure, there are "other reasons". But the arena did not change between AH2 and AH3. Therefore besides the AH3 game change, the only drastic change in that arena was the water. Unfortunately, many did not return after it was fixed because it took a while for it to be fixed, among other issues. Once the #s died. Hitech changed it to the current match play.

There have only been 2 arenas for the DA/Match Play. The names changed, but the map only changed once. From the original DA where you had to Check 6 for a fight. To the match play arena we currently have now. The only recent change is what we see in the arena now with air spawns and AI plus the dueling aspect. The furball lake map has always been the same since the change from the original DA in AH2. I've never really been a fan of the furball lake area for reasons I have specified many times.

[Eagler]

It's probably not needed as not too many want to go 1v1 there or anywhere these days

Eagler

[guncrasher]

violator the water problem was a real problem back then, totally agree with that, lots of complains including myself.  but that is not the specific reason why an arena failed or why people left.  I could understand that if all they fights were below 300 feet over water, they werent.

you seem to be stuck on the idea that if there was an arena just like the old one and it was advertised on the front page, people would show up.  odds are they wont, look at the ava arena or ww1 arena.  the moderators of that arena will change the settings to anything you want and they have done it.  pigs once had a squad night in the ava with ww1 planes and m3's.

if you think about it, if people really want to duel any arena will do, including the ma.  maps wont matter, I've had a few 1v1 or even 2v2 in the ma.  we just asked all others nicely to stay away.  and they did.  you get shot down the other guys moves closer to your base and you climb to altitude whatever was agreed upon then you say ready.  you shoot him down, you move closer to his base, let him climb, repeat till out of fuel or ammo.

no big secret to it.  but violator sometimes you think that your idea is the best way to go.  but ignore the fact that any idea you may have has already been done before.  like your argument several months before that you could prove that some maps attract players more than others or something like that.  you still havent posted any data.


semp

[nrshida]

I distinctly remember the water being a major issue after the switch to AH3.

Re-read what you wrote and you'll see an example of unsound reasoning nested in your own words. If it is exactly as you say and for most people the water was a problem to the extent it drove players away and then the issue was fixed, why does it still remain a problem as you consistantly assert? Is it not actually your preference which you are trying to present as a deal-breaking issue which must be removed for everyone?

I think the AH3 water is a vast improvement over AH2, especially on one of the tropical maps I saw once. Beautifully done.

My methods are based on pure experience in these types of arenas for 15 years. They are practical and represent what I've seen as successful over the years in quick action arenas. I dont see how they are unsound in the least, atleast compared to what we have now.

The 'method' you label here is not your method but your theory. Your hypothesis. How you arrived at that is your method. What you have arrived at can't even be called a hypothesis. It's something else called belief. Every comment discussing your proposals you interpret as an attack on your faith and come back with essentially a defence of your belief. There isn't any fluidity or evolution or integration of new evidence,  just a deeper entrenchmant of your belief. As I said, you know you're right.

if you think about it, if people really want to duel any arena will do, including the ma.  maps wont matter

No not really. Arenas dictate action possibilities. We do have a duelling area but it is sub-optimal. The starting alt randomised (traditionally duellers fought at low-level). The airspawn spacing is questionable and you must enter a queuing system, not choose your opponent.

AH presently has nothing offering the freeform action-possibilities that the old furbal lake did.

Just out of interest Semp, can you explain why you or some others seem motivated to look for reasons why such a map should NOT be provided? It almost begins to appear spitefully-motivated. It wouldn't be compulsory to fly there. Just as it isn't in any of the other arenas were you (or hardly anybody, apparently) prefers to fly in either. I don't quite grasp why it is necessary to be so intolerant of other's wishes? Am I missing something?

[nrshida]

...

[guncrasher]

Just out of interest Semp, can you explain why you or some others seem motivated to look for reasons why such a map should NOT be provided? It almost begins to appear spitefully-motivated. It wouldn't be compulsory to fly there. Just as it isn't in any of the other arenas were you (or hardly anybody, apparently) prefers to fly in either. I don't quite grasp why it is necessary to be so intolerant of other's wishes? Am I missing something?

because the map doesnt matter, what matters is you and the other guy in a fight.  can you honestly say that any fight where you had fun in a 1v1 would have been funner in a different map?  it's just you and the other guy, that's it.


semp

[nrshida]

because the map doesnt matter, what matters is you and the other guy in a fight.  can you honestly say that any fight where you had fun in a 1v1 would have been funner in a different map?  it's just you and the other guy, that's it.

It does matter if it facilitates the fights in the first place, is the point. You can't seriously claim the present MA is well disposed to a 1v1, notwithstanding fun fights are accidentally possible. You and I had one of those for example. Probably about one of the three I had that MONTH.

[DmonSlyr]

It just seems that common sense ain't so common anymore. I'm pointing out obvious inconsistencies that did have a major effect at the time, much like I am pointing out inconsistencies that make the current Match Play not work. Yall can beat around the bush all day, the fact is, there is no great arena where I can push the runway and instantly join a fight with others online within seconds. In the MA that is a hit or miss depending on the time zone and map actionability. In the MA I might have to fly 5 minutes before I find that and will have to use extreme strategy not to get ganged by 3 cons. Then have to fly 5 minutes again just for the same if I die.

The match play right now is too complex. It's that simple, and fighting against the AI should be it's own separate arena. You cannot really fight against others in the match play with the AI. It's not working and the daily #s show it.

Again, all I am asking for is a Monday night madness type of arena set all day and night by the game host so that quick action with others is an option. Id prefer only one team where everyone is green. It's not rocket science. The name of the arena matters. They can still have their Monday night special event, but why can't we have that arena up all of the time and name it "free for all quick fight" or something so people know what's going on on the arena tab? Why is there only one night where this quick action type of fighting happens?

[nrshida]

It just seems that common sense ain't so common anymore. I'm pointing out obvious inconsistencies that did have a major effect at the time, much like I am pointing out inconsistencies that make the current Match Play not work. Yall can beat around the bush all day, the fact is, there is no great arena where I can push the runway and instantly join a fight with others online within seconds. In the MA that is a hit or miss depending on the time zone and map actionability. In the MA I might have to fly 5 minutes before I find that and will have to use extreme strategy not to get ganged by 3 cons. Then have to fly 5 minutes again just for the same if I die.

The match play right now is too complex. It's that simple, and fighting against the AI should be it's own separate arena. You cannot really fight against others in the match play with the AI. It's not working and the daily #s show it.

Again, all I am asking for is a Monday night madness type of arena set all day and night by the game host so that quick action with others is an option. Id prefer only one team where everyone is green. It's not rocket science. The name of the arena matters. They can still have their Monday night special event, but why can't we have that arena up all of the time and name it "free for all quick fight" or something so people know what's going on on the arena tab? Why is there only one night where this quick action type of fighting happens?

Despite our differences in approach I mostly agree or at least in principal although I do not know what Midnight Madness means (I assume there's no water in there  ). I know many old Furbal lake regulars have popped into the MA in the last few years. They also don't stick around which is a bit of a sad commentary on the state of MA Gameplay to those who are not dyed-in-the-wool MA players. If you only facilitate MA gameplay, and the MA is only populated by experienced people, you have a rotating snake eating its own tail situation.

Our principal remaining difference V, is that you still pursue a 'perfect solution', I recognise the tremendous sticktion around here for getting three airbases unlocked 

[The Fugitive]

I think the biggest problem with a FFA type arena is that there are only 5 of you guys left in the game that like that type of fighting.

For the most part we have GVers, base grabbers, high alt milk running bombers, and of course the "chicken pickers" type of flyers. There are very few left that are in the game purely for the fight any more. Even "Monday night Madness" isnt that populated these days and that is pretty much the setup your looking for.

Face it, numbers are down and all types of play suffer from that. The only cure is to get more players in the arenas and Hitech doesnt seem to want to change anything to try and do that.

Despite our differences in approach I mostly agree or at least in principal although I do not know what Midnight Madness means (I assume there's no water in there  ). I know many old Furbal lake regulars have popped into the MA in the last few years. They also don't stick around which is a bit of a sad commentary on the state of MA Gameplay to those who are not dyed-in-the-wool MA players. If you only facilitate MA gameplay, and the MA is only populated by experienced people, you have a rotating snake eating its own tail situation.

Our principal remaining difference V, is that you still pursue a 'perfect solution', I recognise the tremendous sticktion around here for getting three airbases unlocked 

Monday Night Madness, every Monday night 8pm eastern they hold a furball setup in the AvA arena. Restrictions on alt to keep the fights low and cut out some of the "picker" type flying. The map has huge sky scrappers to fly in and around make maneuvering type fights more of the norm.

[nrshida]

Monday Night Madness, every Monday night 8pm eastern they hold a furball setup in the AvA arena. Restrictions on alt to keep the fights low and cut out some of the "picker" type flying.

That's 2.00-a.m. my time. I've long since had my dinner, done some evening work, got into a rolling scissors with Mrs. Shida with a lucky crossing shot at the end and gone to sleep. I appreciate this is an American-centric game, but it can't really pretend to be a 24-7 premiere MMOG any longer.

I think the biggest problem with a FFA type arena is that there are only 5 of you guys left in the game that like that type of fighting.

Wonder why 

[DmonSlyr]

Despite our differences in approach I mostly agree or at least in principal although I do not know what Midnight Madness means (I assume there's no water in there  ). I know many old Furbal lake regulars have popped into the MA in the last few years. They also don't stick around which is a bit of a sad commentary on the state of MA Gameplay to those who are not dyed-in-the-wool MA players. If you only facilitate MA gameplay, and the MA is only populated by experienced people, you have a rotating snake eating its own tail situation.

Our principal remaining difference V, is that you still pursue a 'perfect solution', I recognise the tremendous sticktion around here for getting three airbases unlocked 

Yeah, I'd definitely say we agree with the main premise of what the arena should be. Aesthetic differences aside, which aren't a huge deal.