Author Topic: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable  (Read 72350 times)

Offline CptTrips

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #1530 on: May 13, 2024, 10:23:19 AM »
Even with a fast machine you can bring DCS to its knees. Set up a couple of large opposing naval fleets in gun range and watch it crawl.

The carnage is glorious though.  :D




There is a lot of what DCS does that is very inefficient. 

I spent the last year digging deep into their editor and scripting API and I can see the design assumptions were really for something else than a server like AH.  That’s why I’ve said again and again (even though some think I am saying otherwise)  DCS is not a direct replacement for the AH type of gameplay experience.    It has it’s own experience, but it is a different thing.  Apples vs Oranges.

My impression from what I’ve seen, the design intent was for single player missions, coop missions of a finite duration.  Think more in terms of a squadron level low cost training simulator, or a AH scenario frame.  The philosophy would be The fixed number of players\trainees would log on, a scenario would be played through.  Mission end.  Debrief\training.  Rinse\Repeat. 

That’s different than AH being designed from scratch as a persistent 24\7 MMO.  The DCS server was not designed like that.  They have been morphing over time to try and support more of that type of configuration, but it is clear that the underlying design assumptions were more toward the fixed duration scenario play through use case.  Understandable given they make a chunk of their money as a low cost trainer for various militaries.

That does mean it can’t provide it’s own interesting game play experience, but it is a different approach than something like AH.  Although some teams (like Enigma Cold War) have coded up some innovated stuff to bend DCS in the MMO direction, but it is hard to do and has it’s limitations.  ED is starting to add stuff in that direction, but that might be a slow evolution. 

DCS’ underlying design is much more similar to something like Battlefield.  Load a map\scenario, play through until a fixed criteria achieved (tickets = 0) or mission time limit.  End.  Rotate to next map\scenario and repeat.

Combat Pilot might be a different story.  I think Williams has visions of persistent MMO type support.

« Last Edit: May 13, 2024, 10:25:19 AM by CptTrips »
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Offline RichardDarkwood

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #1531 on: May 13, 2024, 03:50:34 PM »
I feel like the 50 cals are god awful in DCS in the war birds. It doesn't seem like 6 guns are being fired and lead shooting is extremely difficult. I never trust that my bullets will hit. I seem to have easy shots that miss even when I set the aim and have good lead. Sometimes it feels like my plane is on a swivel bobbing. Wings and tails and don't fly off like they do in AH. Tough to tell if they are down. When I finally get some hits it seems like no damage is done. On top of the tiny planes in the distance that I cannot tell which direction and If they are friendly or enemy until right on top of them.

Are you adjusting the gunsight properly?
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Offline Banshee7

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #1532 on: May 14, 2024, 08:52:16 AM »
Just checking for understanding here.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but this is what I've gathered:

Modules = purchasing planes
Terrains = purchasing maps
Campaigns = purchasing maps with single player missions?


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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #1533 on: May 14, 2024, 09:17:07 AM »
Just checking for understanding here.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but this is what I've gathered:

Modules = purchasing planes
Terrains = purchasing maps
Campaigns = purchasing maps with single player missions?

Heh.  Good point.  The usage is kinda loose.

Common usage is "module" is referring to a vehicle or plane.

But DCS uses a modular approach to add capability onto the base game.
I think you should call anything a module that extends the base game capabilities.
To me planes and vehicles would be "modules", but so would shape asset packs, Command and Control game interface add-on.
Terrains are sort of a gray area.  I'd define a terrain as a module.

Missions and Campaigns I'd define as "Content" rather than a module because it is using the capabilities, to provide experience, but is not a capability in itself.
But people willl often refer to a new campaign as a module too.

Modules generally mean plane or vehicle, but could inclue other stuff like Combined Arms interface or object shape packs.

Terrain is a plug-in to extend the base game-play area to other parts of the globe.  Dirt, trees, cities.

Missions files are a pre-definition of game-play scenario that utilizes terrains and other capabilities.  There may or may not be victory conditions.  Stored in a ".Miz" file.  A Mission can be designed as SP or MP by what kind of spawn slots are defined into mission definition.

Campaigns are a collection of SP missions that maybe or may not enforce order (success to advance) of play on the mission within or just group them.

« Last Edit: May 14, 2024, 09:28:43 AM by CptTrips »
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Offline AKIron

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #1534 on: May 14, 2024, 09:24:35 AM »
More free modules than paid but not many free live up to the standard of those paid for.

Some campaigns can be played with multiple people.

DCS supports up to 128 people in a mission. In theory. Lot of variables.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2024, 09:26:18 AM by AKIron »
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #1535 on: May 14, 2024, 09:35:23 AM »
Some campaigns can be played with multiple people.

Are you sure?

I thought you couldn't have MP campaigns only SP.

You can have Coop\MP missions.
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Offline AKIron

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #1536 on: May 14, 2024, 09:44:04 AM »
I've bought several campaigns but never played any. But I've read you can have multiplayer in them. Perhaps that's wrong. Campaigns are just a sequence of missions are they not?

Of course ED has been promising a Dynamic Campaign for many years. They may eventually deliver.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2024, 09:46:15 AM by AKIron »
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #1537 on: May 14, 2024, 09:52:25 AM »
I've bought several campaigns but never played any. But I've read you can have multiplayer in them. Perhaps that's wrong. Campaigns are just a sequence of missions are they not?

Of course ED has been promising a Dynamic Campaign for many years. They may eventually deliver.


I remember seeing posts, but it may be PAID campaigns can't be made MP.

"Unfortunately, the way DCS copy protects paid DLC campaigns, it's impossible to make them multiplayer."
https://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comments/qcx753/dcs_world_coop_missionscampaigns/


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Offline AKIron

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #1538 on: May 14, 2024, 12:15:48 PM »
I started to build a DCS campaign once. Then I got tired and decided to do something easy like inverted air refueling.
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Offline RichardDarkwood

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #1539 on: May 14, 2024, 05:40:33 PM »
I started to build a DCS campaign once. Then I got tired and decided to do something easy like inverted air refueling.

i know a guy that does that in the hornet
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Offline LCADolby

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #1540 on: May 14, 2024, 05:50:43 PM »
A little off topic I know, but have any of you tried Wreckfest?

This is dumb fun 101

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Offline RichardDarkwood

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #1541 on: May 14, 2024, 08:09:09 PM »
A little off topic I know, but have any of you tried Wreckfest?

This is dumb fun 101



I bought that game when it came out on Xbox. Lots of FUN
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Offline GasTeddy

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #1542 on: May 15, 2024, 03:45:34 AM »

A little off topic I know, but have any of you tried Wreckfest?


My son drives Flatout2, which is pretty arcade but he seems to like it. As offroad sim, we have Screamer 4X4 from GOG, I like it. With wheel and pedals, I play only Bubble Shooter and Solitaire w/ mouse.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2024, 05:10:28 AM by GasTeddy »

Offline edge12674

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #1543 on: May 15, 2024, 08:39:41 AM »
Here is where the "state of the art" combat sim has currently reached.  Some complain about the price ($60 pre-release and $80 after pre-release discount), but when 1/48 scale plastic model kits are around the same price it doesn't seem quite as expensive.

Closest you can come to owning a real F-4 Phantom (not to mention firing ordinance from one):


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Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #1544 on: May 15, 2024, 08:49:45 AM »
People are so weird when it comes to video game pricing, and that's a lot to do with steam and FTP games. It's like they think video games grow on trees and should just be free no matter what. There are profitably thousands of games that never get played to the full potential because of the pricing models. I honestly think we should go back to the $60 game model where you spend $60 upfront and get play the game forever with no additional purchases to give a player an advantage. These kids will go to a bar and spend $100 flat for a few drinks in a matter of hours, but you tell them a video game is $15 a month and their heads explode.
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