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Author Topic: E vs C  (Read 4193 times)

Offline midnight Target

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E vs C
« on: January 17, 2002, 05:13:37 PM »
While I feel the tug to argue with the tighty righties on many issues on this board I have still not seen the one issue that seems to really light my fires.

Teaching Creationism in school. Why oh why is this still an issue almost 80 years after the Scopes trial. Only a completely relapsed bufoon would ........sorry I'll try to stay civil.

Evolution happened. <----Period

Deal with it and quit trying to tell my kids that the laws of nature were somehow suspended because that is what the Bible says. If you want to get specific, bring it on!

PS. The first person to quote Dr. Peterson to me will be very sorry. (Hint : He was a janitor before getting his honorary degree from an Adventist school)
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Offline AKDejaVu

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E vs C
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2002, 05:17:25 PM »
Quote
Evolution happened. <----Period


Ah... but did it happen as it is being taught?

Both are based on a serious amount of assumptions and beliefs... its just that Creationism has so many more documents to support it;)

AKDejaVu
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Offline Toad

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« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2002, 05:28:11 PM »
Ummm... sorry, but I don't really care what they teach. In its long, long history, mankind has taught and believed a lot of stuff. Some was right apparently and some was obviously wrong. Yet here we all are, still plodding into the unknown future.

I told my kids what I thought. Guided them as best I could. Now they're mostly all grown up... they decide for themselves now...

...and like the rest of us they'll find out who was right eventually.

:D
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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Udie

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Re: E vs C
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2002, 05:34:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target


Evolution happened. <----Period





 Prove it :D



 Who's to say that one of God's days isn't like 10 million years or more?  It does say that Adam came from dust. Stardust maybe?   God said "let there be light" and there was light.  Big Bang maybe?  I've kind of merged the two to justify my existance :)  I don't know if I'm right, i think I am, but I wasn't around billions of years ago so...  All I know is that I refuse to believe that the human DNA or any DNA for that matter came to being by a random chance of events.  I can see them not teaching creationism in school as it's religious.  But they should, and my science teachers did, make sure to say that it's just theory and that there are other "ideas" about creation.  The only thing we can be 100% sure about is that we can't be 100% sure about anything, exept the one thing we can be absolutely sure about :)


 I guess you could call me a confused Christian.
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Offline GRUNHERZ

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E vs C
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2002, 05:54:49 PM »
I think its pretty clear and I dont understand why a debate ever existed.

Creationism is a RELIGIOUS concept, the version in question is being particular to the religions of Judaism, Christianity and Islam. All  belive in creation in more or less exact way IIRC. Seperation of church and state means this is not taught in schools as part of official curriculum. All the whacko christians and such conservatives who ask for it to be taught as official curriculm should also ask that Budhist and whatever other religious idea be taught. If you want it go to sunday schools!


Evolution is a scientific theory based on real genetic and archeological evidence. If you dont want it then refuse teahing of gravity in schools too. Would you?


RELIGION = CHURCH

SCIENCE = SCHOOL


OK? Nobody too upset I hope?
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Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2002, 05:58:16 PM »
But here is another thing I just dont understand.

Why cant people compromise?

There is plenty of room for both a GOD type origin and EVOLUTION.

Evolution and all of Science for that matter work pretty well back to the big bang and start of the universe. Nobody knows where all this came from, or what was before or where it is.

Where is the universe?


I see plenty of room for a GOD type force in that, no?
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Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2002, 06:00:04 PM »
What if I were to tell you that a vessel with a methane atmosphere (primordial) and a soup of preorganic compounds (known to exist on other planets pre life)  that was zapped by high voltage electricity (lightning)  produced nucleotides. A group of nucleotides make DNA.  All this was accomplished over about 72 hours in a lab. What do you think nature could do in 4.5 billion years?

The only evidence for Creation is the Creation story in the Bible........what about all the other religions and their creation stories? You don't need to twist the story of Genesis to fit the facts Udie. Genesis is just a story. The Bible is a wonderful compass for moral behavior, but it is not perfect, and pre Moses it is not even very accurate history.
 
Toad wrote: "Ummm... sorry, but I don't really care what they teach"

Humans have risen to the hights because we stand on the shoulders of giants. We have the ability to take knowledge from past generations and use it to further the next. I care very much what they teach.

AK Dejavu wrote: "Ah... but did it happen as it is being taught?"

"Both are based on a serious amount of assumptions and beliefs... its just that Creationism has so many more documents to support it"

Did it happen as being taught....we don't know the detailed mechanism, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. Scientists argue over whether evolution occurs in spurts or gradually. They agree that it did happen.

As to the "many more documents", nope. Unless you mean Bible studies. That isn't evidence it is Bible study. More later.
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Offline mrfish

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« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2002, 06:19:22 PM »
as long as they don't present evolution as a closed case it is ok. if a school taught creationism i'd send my kid to a different school - period. i can't believe there is even a debate about it, good grief.

good science would mean letting the kids know that this is the idea that seems most likely based on what we know rather then a definite 'this IS the way it is'. they should realize it's subject to change and reinterpretation like anything else.

truth is, we don't have enough information to make a conclusion either way, that's what's great about science:

you don't have to make a conclusion. its more about being methodical about the pursuit than having a final answer.

religion doesn't offer anything like that.

they give you one option, one reality; riddled with laughable inconsistencies; and then wonder why you have little faith in their freaky ideas about an invisible daddy in space who likes to zap stuff into being and then hide out and peek and judge us while we do our thing.

ug, come on outta the cave lotar..... it's ok....come on...it won't hurt you, see, no lightning bolts;)

we are on our own, like it or not. might as well let the kiddies know early and limit the fairey tails to santa claus.
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Offline AKIron

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« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2002, 06:27:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
What if I were to tell you that a vessel with a methane atmosphere (primordial) and a soup of preorganic compounds (known to exist on other planets pre life)  that was zapped by high voltage electricity (lightning)  produced nucleotides. A group of nucleotides make DNA.  All this was accomplished over about 72 hours in a lab. What do you think nature could do in 4.5 billion years?


What exactly is this "nature" that you speak of? Also, from where did the methane and lightning come?
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Offline AKSWulfe

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« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2002, 06:31:20 PM »
Also, from where did the methane and lightning come?

The methane came from the anus of the universe, duh! The lightning came from the positively charged electrons from planet's rubbing on the carpet... :)
-SW
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Offline Sandman

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« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2002, 06:36:06 PM »
A nice troll, TahGut.

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sand

Offline AKIron

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« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2002, 06:40:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKSWulfe
Also, from where did the methane and lightning come?

The methane came from the anus of the universe, duh! The lightning came from the positively charged electrons from planet's rubbing on the carpet... :)
-SW


(Smacks forehead as SW's brilliance illuminates my ignorance)

You should be sitting on a mountain top in Tibet Wulfe, no really. :p
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Offline Zigrat

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« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2002, 07:01:06 PM »
anyone who believes that the story of creation should be taken literally is truly an idiot

that being said, i believe the story to be true in a symbolic sense. i definitely believe god created life. scientists cannot and i dont believe ever will be able to duplicate that feat.  so in that sense creationism is true. and the story of original sin may very well have truth to it as well, though i doubt the sin was really eating an apple :)

the bible was not meant to be taken literally, though i certainly am much more likely to believe the events ofthe new testament to be "historical" as opposed to the old.
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Offline Kieran

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I am laughing my a** off right at you, Tahgut
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2002, 07:26:20 PM »
I knew this would be your stance on religion in school, without ever asking. Perfectly ok to talk "tolerance" when it fits your agenda, eh? ;) Well, I agree, religion does not belong in public schools. Shall we discuss what else I don't think belongs in public schools? No?
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Offline Fatty

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E vs C
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2002, 08:19:59 PM »
Until there is full and proper credit given to Prometheus I refuse to believe any of the urban legend bunk in todays textbooks.
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