E vs C

[hblair]

Originally posted by mrsid2
If the church had its way, the earth would still be a pancake and all the stars and the sun turning around it.

Religion is the human minds way to explain the unexplainable. It seems that some people just NEED to believe in some higher power because they can't grasp the reality around them.

What is your opinion on Isaiah 40:22?

[Horn]

Originally posted by Kieran

"We can't teach religion at school!" What are you afraid of? That some religious kid will beat you up or rape you? What is this religious fear? Why shouldn't they work to forward their beliefs? I can understand how religious families feel when a secular holiday excludes them, change the holidays!  "We need to be more toooooleraaaant about religion!"

If there were equality in the teaching of religion in schools, then I'd be for it. Sections on the Hindi, Bhuddism and Druid and Pagan thought would make for an education. But if you are just talking ONE religion, then no. And prayer? Christian only? Leave it out of our schools.

Horn

[Sandman]

Says "circle" but really meant "sphere?"

[Kieran]

Horn-

I was turning an argument around. I don't for a second want religion in schools for all the reasons enumerated. Though religious, I recognize it as unworkable. Do note how similar the argument sounds to including gay education in schools.

[midnight Target]

Those who are trying to mix evolution and the Bibles account of creation think of this, According to the book of Genesis God created mature creatures, (not newborns), a mature Man and Woman, "Great Whales", Cattle, etc...

Sooo, Would God not also create a mature (already aged) earth?

Ponder the thought.

I have missed alot since my last visit to the boards....great stuff on both sides of the issue.

hblair...Incredibly enough I am not an athiest., however I choose to believe that God isn't trying to play tricks on us. Why place rocks that can be definitely aged through many radioactive isotopes on our Earth that are 4.5 billion years old? Is this some almighty test to see if we have faith? Did God give us a brain and the ability to reason just to see if we were gonna shut down our intelligence when it disagreed with the Bible?  

If you don't understand the various methods for dating inorganic and organic materials there was a very good explanation on the National Geographic site a little while ago.

Kieran,
I would be in favor of teaching tolerance for religions in schools. How is this hypocritical? I have different views on different subjects Kieran. Some things belong in school some don't and each has its own reason. That isn't hypocritical, its human.

Kieran wrote:
You aren't about tolerance, you aren't about improving society, you aren't about anything noble at all, you're just a self-serving hypocrite- just like the rest of us. The difference between us is I know it.

Wow! All I can say is I try to be as noble as I can within the restrictions of being just another person. My stance on Evolution is not based on idle opinion. My degree in college was in biological science. I spent 4 (ok 5) years looking at all aspects of the biological world and have drawn my conclusions from that. I have also purchased and studied many "scientific creationism" books over the years and have found all of them to be bad science.

Creation didn't happen as described in the Bible...if it did God is some merry trickster testing us with intellectual land mines.

Consider this: God has become less and less necessary over the centuries as science and the ingenuity of Man comes up with more and more answers to the questions our forefathers took as unanswerable. Is this proof there is no God? NO! But it does require much more faith in God if evolution is accepted than if it is not. So who is the more religious man? The evolutionist who believes in God or the Christian who blindly follows the literal interpretation of the Bible?

[Eagler]

we are the result of the universe consuming to many chili dogs, call it what you want, just stop flattering yourself thinking in our present state we are anything more....

[Kieran]

I cannot help you if you fail to see the fundamental hypocracy of being adamantly open-minded of sexuality classes in school for the sake of "spreading understanding and tolerance", yet at the same time being apparently terrified children might be exposed to religion in the classroom. You are doing precisely what you rage against religion for doing; pushing your mores upon others. Toad was closer to what you appear to suggest you are, that is, teach all of it and let people decide. Me, (being in the profession) I know that is not practical- there isn't enough time in the day to do it, even if we could all decide what is acceptable.

I say neither  should be included, as we as a society cannot determine where the lines of acceptability are. I say both  should be handled by parents and churches.

You aren't being open-minded, you are being fickle, selective, and hypocritical. If you are a "scientist" as you posture yourself to be you would seek knowledge. If you had taken that approach I could understand your need to see homosexual studies in school. As it is you are just another agenda-pusher to me. Clothe it all in the buzzwords of the day, but it is the same thing.

[Toad]

Target: Humans have risen to the hights because we stand on the shoulders of giants. We have the ability to take knowledge from past generations and use it to further the next. I care very much what they teach.

Yeah... and a very large number of those "Giants" were taught the Creation myth you so despise in their youth.

Go figure.

Guess the knowledge from those poor misled giants gave us this "knowledge from past generations" and some other "unenlightened" giants used that to further the next. And so on and so on and so on.

Pretty ironic, huh?  

I really don't think the teaching or not teaching of a Creation Myth is going to totally stymie the forward progression of humankind's scientific knowledge.

I think you've got an axe to grind and this is a tempest in a teapot.

Did it matter if Copernicus believed the Creation Myth or not?

Did it matter if Einstein believed the Creation Myth or not?

Did it matter if the inventor of the Hostess Twinkie believed the Creation myth or not?

BFD.. They're YOUR kids. Guess where the responsibility lies.

Or do you sluff all that "teaching religion, sex, honor, character" stuff off on the schools and other minor government functionaries?




Kieran, spot on in just about every respect.

[midnight Target]

I NEVER suggested teaching "sexuality" in schools. Go back and read again. I suggested teaching tolerance. Sex education in school should be retricted to the biological aspects only. This is not a change of heart, it is consistant with everything I have ever posted.

Educated people CAN agree on the general method by which life on Earth got to the point we see today and they do. I am not nor have I ever claimed to be a scientist. Big difference between training for a science and using it. I taught science briefly before moving into the private sector. I am not a scientist.

[mrsid2]

Hblair Isaiah 40:22 reflects the common belief of those times that the sky was actually something solid above people's heads protecting them from all kinds of nasty things. The stars and the moon were either hanging from it or merely holes in the cover - a terracentric system.

The protective part of course was somewhat accurate even though the atmosphere is not solid.

[Octavius]

Originally posted by Tumor:

Added for the amusement of the truly intolerant.  I believe in both.  I believe GOD IS the missing link.  I think your average Christian puts way too much "spiritualism" or "magic" for lack of a better description into the God thing.   I do NOT think "God" as taught to us in "Bible" fashion could possibly be such a completely hateful and mean spirited bieng as "it" is portrayed.  I mean really, be honest with yourself.  How can you be so loving and blah blah and send people to
'hell" who've never even heard of you, FOR NOT BELIEVING IN YOU?  Completely ludicrous

Exactly how i feel. thanks for putting it into word form for me, tumor

hblair:

Those who are trying to mix evolution and the Bibles account of creation think of this, According to the book of Genesis God created mature creatures, (not newborns), a mature Man and Woman, "Great Whales", Cattle, etc...

Sooo, Would God not also create a mature (already aged) earth?

Ponder the thought.

Where do the dino's come from?  Why, God make 65,000,000+ year old bones and buried them  exactly

[mrsid2]

Octavius obviously you haven't read Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy

[Kieran]

How then shall we teach tolerance without discussing what we are being tolerant of?

Sure, we can model tolerant behavior.

Sure, we can use catch-phrases that accentuate differences.

Sure, we can celebrate uniqueness in culture and customs.

But we aren't doing anything specific there. Not that I have a problem with that, but it is not the same as replying to my comment "homosexual studies do not belong in school" with "we need to teach tolerance."

I know a nice guy that is gay. I don't want to be his friend, yup, because he represents a lifestyle I find reprehensible. I am polite, helpful, and have even defended him against those that publicly bashed him for being gay. Still, he is not my friend and never will be. I could live next door to him, I could work next to him, and as long as he never mentions his lifestyle, we could talk. But that's it.

I can show him respect, but I will never approve of his lifestyle, nor will I ever be a part of spreading it. How tolerant is that?

[hblair]

Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
Says "circle" but really meant "sphere?"

The translated "circle" comes from the old hebrew word "chuwg" meaning encompass, draw round.

[mrfish]

and when the ancient asians thought that the world was on a giant lotus flower it was just code for what they really meant right?

you see lotus leaves are kinda eliptical and planet orbits are slightly eliptical right? right? thats what they meant...it could be.....  

ever seen a god....any god? why are the other 75 zillion religions wrong and your jew/christian thingy is right?

i mean theres thousands of gods floating around according to the thousands of fantasy stories about them but the closest anyone has ever come to seeing them is some mexicans finding the virgin mary in everything from treesap to a reflection in the bathroom window. thats because your imaginary friend is the real one and the others are all fake huh...

come on, wake up... why are you all trying to make silly myths match the real world?

still primative after all  these years. a bunch of cowering hairless apes worried that an invisible man is watching them from space...thats hilarious