Author Topic: WWII trivia/opinion - biggest contribution.  (Read 1428 times)

Offline Curval

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WWII trivia/opinion - biggest contribution.
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2002, 12:04:20 PM »
miko2d,

No sweat man.....

Good thread...good answer on your behalf...

I like a good argument....(just thought for a moment I was in the wrong room and received abuse instead!)  hehe  

;)
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Offline easymo

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WWII trivia/opinion - biggest contribution.
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2002, 12:38:17 PM »
Stalin. His willingness to throw away the lives of millions of his countrymen, stopped hitler.

Offline -tronski-

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« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2002, 12:43:13 PM »
I doubt you can find any one person who made the biggest contribution to the war.

however one I would choose:

 Major General RN O'Connor, commander of the Western Desert Force.

On December 8th 1940, his plan for a 5 day raid turned into a 62 day offensive. By Feb 1941 his 500 mile advance has shattered 10 Italian divisions with 133,295 made prisoner, 400 tanks and 1200 guns captured for the loss of 500 killed, 1373 missing.

His offensive could've ended the desert war but for a decision Churchill made that could rival any of Hitlers, when he was ordered to send his Armoured Brigade, and 3 Infantry divisions including his best troops: the Australian and New Zealanders to Greece.

 Tronsky
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Offline Curval

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« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2002, 12:48:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by -tronski-
I doubt you can find any one person who made the biggest contribution to the war.

however one I would choose:

 Major General RN O'Connor, commander of the Western Desert Force.

On December 8th 1940, his plan for a 5 day raid turned into a 62 day offensive. By Feb 1941 his 500 mile advance has shattered 10 Italian divisions with 133,295 made prisoner, 400 tanks and 1200 guns captured for the loss of 500 killed, 1373 missing.

His offensive could've ended the desert war but for a decision Churchill made that could rival any of Hitlers, when he was ordered to send his Armoured Brigade, and 3 Infantry divisions including his best troops: the Australian and New Zealanders to Greece.

 Tronsky


Yea...but he was fighting Italians....who even Hiltler reffered to as "our liabilty to the south".

Question:  Why does the Italian navy have a bunch of glass bottom boats in it?

Answer:  To show new recruits the old Italian navy!
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Offline Boroda

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« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2002, 01:06:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by easymo
Stalin. His willingness to throw away the lives of millions of his countrymen, stopped hitler.


If USSR have lost the War - the whole people could be eliminated. It was simple: win or die. Death for every Eastern Slav and other people of the USSR.

BTW, Soviet combat losses are bigger then German, but they are comparable. Most of the 20 million Soviet people who died in a war were civilians...

Offline Yeager

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« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2002, 01:07:11 PM »
THAT WOMAN (I FORGOT HER NAME) IN ITALY THAT PERSONALLY SERVICED 15,000+ ALLIED SAILORS, AIRMEN AND SOLDIERS.

HER CONTRIBUTION TO VICTORY WAS IMMEASURABLE.

Y

SRRY CAPS, BS BROWSER IS  PORKED
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Offline -dead-

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WWII trivia/opinion - biggest contribution.
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2002, 01:08:26 PM »
Georges Clemenceau - without him, no harsh reparations in the treaty of Versailles -> no economic chaos in Weimar -> no rise to power of the Nazi party -> No invasion of Czechoslovakia & Poland (States created by the treaty of Versailles)-> No WWII -> No allied victory.

Bit of a sneaky answer though, I fear. :D
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Offline Tac

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« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2002, 01:14:22 PM »
I think the group of people that invented RADAR take priority over the one that cracked enigma.

Remember, the Allies captured enigma machines and codes (like the one in the U-boat) just a few months after enigma was cracked. True, it was a huge accomplishment to crack the code, but it wouldnt have been a biggest contribution in the END because the enigma codes were captured too.

Another prize goes to MI 6 & british intelligence. Their misinformation campaign throughfuly confused the germans and tied down entire divisions.

But overall the biggest contribution would be, imo, to those that fought in Leningrad/Stalingrad . THAT was the point that turned the entire war around. If the germans hadnt been retreating/losing badly in the russian front, D-Day probably wouldve never happened.

In the PTO: The CoastWatchers. Those men and women were absolutely vital to the war effort in the intel gathering area.

Offline Curval

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« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2002, 01:16:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda


If USSR have lost the War - the whole people could be eliminated. It was simple: win or die. Death for every Eastern Slav and other people of the USSR.

BTW, Soviet combat losses are bigger then German, but they are comparable. Most of the 20 million Soviet people who died in a war were civilians...


Actually the Soviets made excellent slave labour for the Germans..so I don't think they would have killed everyone.

Also, the Germans were very willing to have Russian deserters actually fight for them too.  Known as Hiwis they fought alongside the Germans right up to the end.  The exact number will never be known though....mainly because old Joe didn't want his citizens to know about it and when captured they were given their last ration by the NKVD.  9mm of lead!
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Offline Tac

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« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2002, 01:25:34 PM »
"His offensive could've ended the desert war but for a decision Churchill made that could rival any of Hitlers, when he was ordered to send his Armoured Brigade, and 3 Infantry divisions including his best troops: the Australian and New Zealanders to Greece"

I believe that was a decision taken out of honor. Britain had pledged military support to greece.. if they had not given it, the Greeks may have resented it so badly they MAY have even joined the axis.

Bad military decision..but a right decision imo.

Offline -tronski-

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« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2002, 03:30:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Tac

I believe that was a decision taken out of honor. Britain had pledged military support to greece.. if they had not given it, the Greeks may have resented it so badly they MAY have even joined the axis.

Bad military decision..but a right decision imo.


Britains obligation to Greece was made in 1939 by Chamberlain to discourage German agression. By 1941 had Britain a far different situation that it was when such a deal was struck.
Churchill firmly believed that a British force in Greece would bring Turkey, and Yugoslavia into the war. The fact that Turkey had neither the will or resources to fight was completely overlooked by Churchill. As was the overwhelmingly superior German forces massing on the eastern Greek border.

That the Italians had already attacked the Greeks leaves no doubt that the Greeks would not have joined the Axis whether the British commited troops or not.

Wavell stripped the Desert Forces for the Greek campaign, and wasted valuable troops in the process in the retreats from Greece to Crete. O'Connor could have captured Tripoli ,pushed the remaining Italian troops out of Libya and virtually ended the North African campaign.

 Tronsky
God created Arrakis to train the faithful

Offline miko2d

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« Reply #26 on: February 14, 2002, 04:01:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by easymo
Stalin. His willingness to throw away the lives of millions of his countrymen, stopped hitler.


 He was instrumental in causing WWII but in winning it? Any one of his underlings or even his vanquished opponents - Trotsky, Bukharin, etc. would have thrown away as many lives as he did, likely more.

 Tac: I think the group of people that invented RADAR take priority over the one that cracked enigma.
 How about the internal combustion engine? Or an airplane? The radar was invented in many countries at approximately the same time and there is no unique individual responcible for that.
 A lot of success attributed to the radar was in fact the result of brits knowing the contents of all luftwaffe communnications starting 1939.
 In fact you would be hard pressed to find another nation so inept in using the radar. They could not develop their own radar-fuse and had to use american design for anti-aircraft shells.
 But they equipped their bombers with rear-facing "Monica" radar. It was guaranteed to always show the danger because british planes were sent in a stream a few miles one after another and the radar did not differentiate between enemy and friendly targets.
 Hundreds of german Me-110 nightfighters (Shrage Musik variant) were equipped with radar that specifically homed on Monica emissions from 50+ miles away which allowed them to find and destroy hundreds of british bombers with impunity. No damaged planes survived to tell the tale until a german landed his fighter in England by accident.
 Anyway, radar or no radar, Germany did not have startegic bombers to seriously attack England - they had to use fighter-bombers and tactical bombers. Even if it did have stategical bomber force and long-range escort fighters, it would not have been instrumental in the war.
 Allies had strategic bombers and used them a lot with complete air superiority and still failed to break germany's will to resist or destroy germany's industry. Luftwaffe run our of pilots before it run out of planes - despite aircraft factories being the prime targets. Same with oil - germans lost Rumanian oil when russians captured it, not when it was bombed.
 I do not have any reason to believe that brits were less determined then germans. Politicians could present teh air war as death and life struggle but it was far from it. Getting food/materiel into the islands (and to the russians) was much more important to winning the war.

 mainly because old Joe didn't want his citizens to know about it and when captured they were given their last ration by the NKVD. 9mm of lead!
 Not really. For various political reasons (apparently becasue of allies who actually accepted their surrender), most were sentenced to 5 years in the camps. The ordinary soviet POWs liberated from german concentration camps got 10-15 years for treason. When many of the real traitors served their terms, they did not have anywhere to go, especially to their home towns, so they stayed in Siberia. Some hired to serve as guards in the same camps - guarding the soldiers that did not turn traitors who had more time to serve!

His offensive could've ended the desert war
 Hitler eventually lost the desert war anyway. If he lost it earlier it could have been very beneficial for him - as a weaker side with limited resources it was not in germany's interests to spread their efforts in multiple theaters of operations. The forces and resources lost in prolonged struggle in Africa could have been much better used on European continent.

miko
« Last Edit: February 14, 2002, 04:06:16 PM by miko2d »

Offline JoeCrip

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« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2002, 04:51:37 PM »
Targutt...you said the guy who invented the british radar? Well, that was Hitler. When Germany aided Spain, and showed it was very powerful, that scared the Birtish soooo much, that they invented radar.

A quick history lesson :)

Offline Tac

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« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2002, 05:27:49 PM »
Radar, like jets, were developed at roughly the same time yes, but which side put each to best use?

When I think brit radar in WW2 I think all those nifty towers that told RAF fighters the formations, numbers and altitude.. something vital in organizing interceptions. That some blockhead engineer put a screwy radar in a bomber.. pfe, so what? Screwing up is a universal constant hehe.

Offline funkedup

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« Reply #29 on: February 14, 2002, 05:50:59 PM »
Henry Ford