Author Topic: Suggestion: New 6-view system  (Read 1110 times)

Offline Tac

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4085
Suggestion: New 6-view system
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2002, 11:38:28 AM »
Im not talking about when spinning Apache, im talking when you pull a tight turn.

I think I was about 1.5 meters away from the center of the machine.

Offline Suda

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Suggestion: New 6-view system
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2002, 04:24:52 PM »
Mandoble, You are pretty close to right on. I am a RLP but only experienced  in a Piper Cherokee. However I did have the oporttunity many years ago (too many to even think about) to go along on a test hop on a side by side two seater jet (I think it was the USMC F3 something or other).
 Anyway this Marine Captain took me up and after an introductory loop and slow roll he began to do his job. I was a radio tech at the time and I remember my right hand down and to the right on the selector buttons and my head down and to the right looking at same.
 Suddenly I found that I could not move my right hand. My first thought was that something is terribly wrong here so I tried to look up to see what the hell this fool is doing. Unfortunatly I could not move my head any further than my hand which was zilch. How this guy was controlling the airplane is beyond me to this day. When he finished whatever he was doing I said "Take me home Captain or I am going to barf all over your shiny cockpit. He did.
  After making a short story long my point is yes, hi g's can immobilize a human body.

Just a newbies 2 cents worth.            Suda

Offline hitech

  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12375
      • http://www.hitechcreations.com
Suggestion: New 6-view system
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2002, 04:35:20 PM »
Anyone intersted in my view?

I only have about 20 hours of fighting real planes.

Including real p51's.

Offline Animal

  • Parolee
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5027
Suggestion: New 6-view system
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2002, 04:39:20 PM »
HiTech I am interested.

Offline Vermillion

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4012
Suggestion: New 6-view system
« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2002, 04:46:30 PM »
Tac wrote:
Quote
yes verm, but tell me if you are able to look straight behind your seat while pulling 8g barrel rolls


Well, to be honest as I can be, I have no clue about 8G's, since the max we pulled was 5G's. But yes, I could at 5G's.  You lean your shoulders slightly forward and twist to the side your looking, turn your head, and with peripheral vision you can basically see the same as what our "dead six" view shows.

Offline Suda

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Suggestion: New 6-view system
« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2002, 05:22:04 PM »
Hi Tech.  Tell me more. how much do you know?

Offline Kratzer

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2066
      • http://www.luftjagerkorps.com/
Suggestion: New 6-view system
« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2002, 05:28:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by hitech
Anyone intersted in my view?

I only have about 20 hours of fighting real planes.

Including real p51's.


Yes - very interested.  

After all, you are the guy who decides what we have in the end, eh? :)

Offline Tac

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4085
Suggestion: New 6-view system
« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2002, 06:01:59 PM »
From left to right to back to up .. at 5G+? Dude, your wife must love you :)

Offline Xjazz

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2653
Suggestion: New 6-view system
« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2002, 12:11:52 AM »
Vermillion write:

------------------------------------------

Well, to be honest as I can be, I have no clue about 8G's, since the max we pulled was 5G's. But yes, I could at 5G's.  You lean your shoulders slightly forward and twist to the side your looking, turn your head, and with peripheral vision you can basically see the same as what our "dead six" view shows.

-------------------------------------------

Concerning above: could you SURELY tell after fast looking is it friendly or foe in you c6? Type of plane? Flight path? Does he closing? etc

Offline SKurj

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3630
Suggestion: New 6-view system
« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2002, 08:17:33 PM »
While i like the AH view system, its probably the very best IMO.. I don't have eyes in the back of my head, nor am i related to Linda Blair...

I would be satisfied with mildly overlapping 5 and 7 views

Westy.. about them rear-view mirrors... did any pilots actually use the damn things?  The only biography I have of a spit pilot was that he removed the useless piece of crap.  The vibrations of the airframe basically made the mirror useless I believe is what he wrote.

I'd imagine the majority of combat pilots who relied on those mirrors didn't survive the war...


SKurj
« Last Edit: February 27, 2002, 09:02:23 PM by SKurj »

Offline pbirmingham

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 201
      • http://bigscary.com
Suggestion: New 6-view system
« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2002, 02:25:47 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Xjazz
Vermillion write:

------------------------------------------

Well, to be honest as I can be, I have no clue about 8G's, since the max we pulled was 5G's. But yes, I could at 5G's.  You lean your shoulders slightly forward and twist to the side your looking, turn your head, and with peripheral vision you can basically see the same as what our "dead six" view shows.

-------------------------------------------

Concerning above: could you SURELY tell after fast looking is it friendly or foe in you c6? Type of plane? Flight path? Does he closing? etc


Jeez, would you people give it up?

(1) It's a frickin' GAME!  It's an exceptionally fun game, chock-full of verisimilitude, but still a game.

(2) Two people have posted from their own DIRECT EXPERIENCE why you are wrong, and you still post conjecture as to why they're probably hallucinating and you're right after all.

(3) I honestly suspect some of you would have HTC add a "Potato Peeling Simulator" to represent those punitive KP assignments you've read about in that historical reference "Beetle Bailey."

If I sewed this idea's mouth shut full of rock salt, would it stay dead?

P.S.  Yes, I have been drinking.  Why do you ask?

Offline Xjazz

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2653
Suggestion: New 6-view system
« Reply #26 on: February 28, 2002, 02:37:21 AM »
pbirmingham:

My question was about real life NOT about Aces high sim.

Keep drinking...

Offline pbirmingham

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 201
      • http://bigscary.com
Suggestion: New 6-view system
« Reply #27 on: February 28, 2002, 03:40:16 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Xjazz
pbirmingham:

My question was about real life NOT about Aces high sim.

Keep drinking...


Good advice -- I think I will.

In fact, I didn't wait for your advice -- I drank some more, and I still think that your question, though it may be about real life, will be eventually put through some rhetorical contortion to support the idea that something is HORRIBLY WRONG with the current view system and IT MUST BE CHANGED, preferably so it's easier to sneak up on somebody.

Yeah, it might be more like the real war, but everybody I've ever heard from says that war sucks, so there!

Offline K West

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1445
Suggestion: New 6-view system
« Reply #28 on: February 28, 2002, 08:11:17 AM »
Skurj I think the mirrors were used more than they were not. For all the stories about pilots removing them I've read more about pilots adding them (especially the Spitfire models) to thier 51's or 47's in 43 and 44.

 As for relying on it. OF course any pilot would be dead. The key to living was keep your head on a swivel - a universal anecdote from piltos of all sides about living or dying in WWII aircombat - but the rear view allowed one to get a rough check of the "6" with just a glance.  
 While I am against being able to go from the "7" view directly to the "five" via way of the "6" (Linda Blair view) I am also NOT for removing any dead-6 view while we lack mirrors.

  Westy

Offline hitech

  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12375
      • http://www.hitechcreations.com
Suggestion: New 6-view system
« Reply #29 on: February 28, 2002, 10:31:28 AM »
In every plane i've faught in ive been able to see the end of the right horz stab while turning around to the left.

One of the first thing I do in a plane that im going to be fighting in is find a hand hold for my left hand. To aid in turning my body.

Turn around and make sure that my sholder straps are not preventing any movement. and that I can see sky on the far side of the veritcal stab.

Turning around under g load does not pose any problems what so ever. But your mussles do work much harder

Ive found it much harder to look at some one straight above me. (realative to the plane) than any other position, this is do to the fact that when under g's you can not tilt your head, it has to stay right on top of your shoulders. Was in a looping fight once with the bogie right out my head, I had my head leaning slighty back and doing about 2 g's on the down side, when about 30 nose below the horizon i snatched the stick to around 6 g's. My head went back so my face was looking straght up. It was totaly unmovable until I came over the top, and I could relax the g's and pull my head back up with my left hand, once you have done this you will NEVER make that mistake again. The next day it felt like I had been lifting a bar bell with my teath . My neck mussles were very sore.

In all my fights ,there have only been 2 times ive had to think about or lost sight of the other plane.

Once on a head on merge we were about a mile and a half apart, and both unloading to get speed for the initial cross, as I unloaded the plane crossed over a conopy rail, I move my head to look above the rail, and it took a good 5 secs to reaquire him, was toejamting bricks until i did.
Btw this was a very hazy day with a scud layer.

The other was right after a merge where we past left to left and he had gotten a fair left hand lead turn on me.  I did a right hand displacment roll causing him to cross under my tail briefly and forcing me to switch from a left hand view to a right hand view of him. He came right out where I expected him so I continued the roll,it put me right behind him, and the fight was over.

Tracking airplanes in a real fight is so much easier than any pc sim can portray with a view system, that puting hindernces in like, no six view, would be by far less realistic when you view things from a over all perception of view VS an each individual view.


Im a novice when it comes to flying under G's. When I observe the real fighter pilots pull g's and move around under hi g's it's like the g's are hardly there for them.

Most ive ever pulled was 7.5 for a brief time.

When fighting in  an L39  we did some sustained tail chacing at around 5.5 to 6.5 for at least a min. This is the only time I had to realy work at fighting g's. Would relax for a sec and would need to strain and grunt back out of the tunnel / grey out.

btw grey out is realy cool if you havn't experenced it, you see perfectly fine but the hole world goes black and white.

It realy does amuse me when people bring up the sugestion of sholder straps being tight, it's not a way you would ever fight, and was one of the first things I was taught when getting in a plane to go fight with.

HiTech