CENSURE certain squad name ?

[SOB]

Lighten up people...Zemke's obviously not a hate monger, and isn't looking to glorify what the SS squads did.  That's a historically accurate name for a squad in a WWII sim, and he chose to use it.

And Az, I'm American and I'm not liberal.  I also don't agree with people wanting to limit someone's freedom of speech just because they don't like what they're saying.  You don't like it, tough titty, get on with your life...I'm sure you value your freedom of speech just as much as I do, regardless of where you're from, so don't expect someone to give theirs up just to make you "feel better".

It's late...I'm going to bed!  Feel free to flame me...should be fun  


SOB

[Karnak]

I am a liberal American.

I find the name to be offensive, but tough, thats the nature of Freedom of Speech and I'll live.

I do think that it would be polite and considerate of Zemke to pull the name, but I do not believe that he should be forced to pull the name.

BTW, one of my conservitive friends was watching me play tonight and saw Zemke's squad name.  He thought that the name was offensive to comment about without my saying anything (he was a platoon commander of M1A1 Abrams in Germany in the late '80s and early '90s and has studied tank warfare quite a bit).  In his opinion the name was insulting and inappropriate.  I mention this to point out that this is not a liberal vs. conservitive issue.

Sisu
-Karnak

[RaTFinK]

I believe that anything goes.

But you will have to face the concequenses.

[Pongo]

 

Originally posted by Karnak:
I am a liberal American.

I find the name to be offensive, but tough, thats the nature of Freedom of Speech and I'll live.

I do think that it would be polite and considerate of Zemke to pull the name, but I do not believe that he should be forced to pull the name.

BTW, one of my conservitive friends was watching me play tonight and saw Zemke's squad name.  He thought that the name was offensive to comment about without my saying anything (he was a platoon commander of M1A1 Abrams in Germany in the late '80s and early '90s and has studied tank warfare quite a bit).  In his opinion the name was insulting and inappropriate.  I mention this to point out that this is not a liberal vs. conservitive issue.

Sisu
-Karnak

yup
good post

[Ripsnort]

I am in favor of free speech, however, I find other names such as 'noshit' and a few others just as offensive as Waffen SS, however, where do we draw the line?  Once  the lines drawn, it can transition from a democracy to a dictatorship real fast without free speech.

My step-father has  always flown the Southern battle flag, its his way of saying "I'm a rebel, and I don't conform to your way, I conform to MY way"....now he gets called a racist...is he indeed a racist?  Hell no, the furthest thing from it!

I say let people name themselves or squads whatever they like...when they start figuring out that folks like me are ignoring their squad, comments on text buffer..maybe they will get a clue.

"We were having a beach party, everyone showed up in colorful beach attire...then one gentleman showed up in a suit, everyone greeted him, but ignored  him after that, he eventually understood that to be part of the party, he must dress for the texture of the party...he left and then came back an hour later in a swim suit..."



[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 07-17-2000).]

[Mighty1]

Yeesh! What is the purpose of a squad name?
For some it's to be historic..for others it's a joke(ie The New Baby Harp Seals) but for all of us it's to say I'm a part of this group of guys/gals and we are better than you.

So what if they call themselfs something offensive? They have that right just like the rest of us had the right to call ourselfs what ever we wanted.

I don't know the historic value of the name and frankly I don't care..I'm here to play a game and to have fun.

I don't care if you call yourselfs "The guys that think Mighty1 is a big dick" squad. It really doesn't matter.

I'm sorry for all of you who lost family and friends in ANY war but come on look at what type of game you are playing...it's recreating the worst time in our world's history.

I think we need to worry less about what past names meant and worry about what they mean now.

Do the guys that fly in this new squad ACT like the original squad..probably not. Do they spread hate and promote real life violence..probably not.

So what is the harm in using the name?

I'm sure if we really wanted to we could find something wrong with every historically accurate squad in here.

------------------
Mighty1
The New Baby Harp Seals
"Come try to club THIS Seal"

[Wanker]

Here's some more food for thought....

Assuming we get more ground vehicles from HTC, there will probably come the day where we'll be setting up historical re-enactments of famous tank battles, like Kursk. Are we going to keep the historical names of the Russian units present, yet change the names of the Waffen SS units to something generic?

Perhaps a compromise could be...
Historical Waffen SS unit names would only be allowed for historical scenarios, and not for general use in the MA.

[AKSeaWulfe]

Nothing important really

[This message has been edited by AKSeaWulfe (edited 07-17-2000).]

[SOB]

Am I wrong, or weren't american bombers ordered to target civilian targets at times during the war?

[AKSeaWulfe]

Follow-up of nothing important

[This message has been edited by AKSeaWulfe (edited 07-17-2000).]

[Apache]

Some of you are using freedom of speech in the wrong context. Freedom of Speech, given to us in our Bill of Rights was/is freedom of speech without government intervention. So you could say, for example, President whomever ain't worth diddly without getting hung.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Freedom of speech without personal responsibiltiy is BS.

------------------
Apache
~XO~ VMF-323 Death Rattlers
Click here for VMF-323 Death Rattlers info

[Ripsnort]

 

Originally posted by AKSeaWulfe:

I am an american, but I don't place myself in any political party. I'm not an anarchist, but politics simply don't interest me. Perhaps they will later on in life.

With all due respect, Wulf, you just described a majority of German folks with your statement above in 1930, most were not interested in party lines or politics, most wanted to have a 'better life'...by ignoring and not analysing their countries politics at a time of turmoil...well, you have read the results.

Politics: Get involved, or lose your freedoms.

[Doug Riech]

Geeze, lets all spin our wheels in the big "pollitically correct " mud puddle at once.
Most of these young folk couldnt give you 3 historically accurate accounts on the whole of WW2,,  others could, but my point is...
Its a NAME of a squad IN A GAME!!!
They probably like the emblem or saw it on the discovery channel or something. JUST a name means nothing, if they spout hatred, then THATS a problem and should be dealt with accordingly. Hell, my last name used to be Reich,(was changed at ellis island via typo) and I have 2 older brothers, which makes me the 3rd Reich of my family. You gonna ban ME cause of a NAME???!!!Worry about actions, not names.      ty        AKelfy   (Doug)

[SOB]

Well put AKelfy  


 

Originally posted by Apache:
Freedom of speech without personal responsibiltiy is BS.

I agree...who's he hurting?  If someone doesn't like it, they can ignore him, insult him or kill him in the arena.


SOB

[F4UDOA]

Gents,

I don't personally believe in censorship of any kind regardless of how idiotic someone's point of view is. The ACLU makes sure that every one has the right to their opinion. The ironic thing is that the ACLU was founded by many Jews and other minorities that are targeted by much of the free speech that they fight to protect.

However some of the people have to stop hiding behind the umbrella of free speech and expression. A little reality check for all those people who claim to be part of the "Waffen SS" in the "game" or not. Guess what, you have some issues to deal with buddy. If your screen name is Hitler, you have problems. The fact is that you relate to something in that group weather it is historic or you just like the snappy uniforms. The Nazi party and it's insignia only ever stood for one thing and for the rest of history it will only ever stand for one thing. If you think you can hold a pile of toejam in your hand and call it flowers go right ahead. It's still toejam and it still smells like toejam.

For the record I have NO problem with anyone flying german A/C or tanks. I have read the JG26 war diaries and I know that soldiers have responsabilities. Even the Israeli Air Force flew BF109's early in their history. I have a Volkswagon and I served 4 years in the USAF. It does not conflict as I hold no grudge toward the German people. But if you choose to wear or represent the Nazi point of view in a game or otherwise. Guess what, that's part of who you are.

F4UDOA