POLL: How many of you want the buffs changed?

[Beltfedd]

 

Originally posted by Fidd:
Odd. 617 achieved an *average* error of 94 yards dropping 12000lb blast bombs from 10,000 ft, which would suggest a drift of 600ft or 200 yards! (according to USAF figures)

Maybe USAF just never expected to hit anything accuratly?

Fidd
(tongue in cheek)
figures taken from "The Dam busters" by Paul Brickhill.

(tongue in cheek)


 

The figure that I quoted from the Discovery Channel (up to 6 ft drift for every 1000 ft of alt for dumb bombs) was from a show about modern laser-guided bombs.  Not that that matters as much as the fact that they were talking about completely ideal circumstances (bombsight accuracy, among other things, is not a factor in this formula).

Think of it this way, you drop a bomb from 1000 feet at a given speed.  In a perfect setting where all atmospheric factors are always the same (no flucuation in air pressure, no turbulence, no wind, etc.) and you release the bomb at the same point in space at always the same velocity: repeating the experiment always ends up hitting the same spot.  

Now if you take this perfect situation and add in the factor of irregularities in the atmosphere affecting the bomb on its way down, you can expect UP TO 6' in deviation at the 1000ft drop altitude.  Of course in a hurricane it could be much more exagerrated, but I don't think the modern USAF drops weapons much in those conditions.

Add in the multitude of factors presented by the case you site, and of course the dispersion will much more magnified.  

Just wanted to make clear that the 6ft max per 1000ft air force quote was only describing one variable in a complicated situation  .

Hope that made sense!  God knows I'm no physics professor, lol.


Belt

[Pongo]

Leave them as they are except...
 make it so that if we padlock a fighter from a gunner position it changes us to the gunner that can see the padlocked fighter as the attacker changes angles. Also make the main gun positions use the same key stroke for the different fighters.
And give us chaff

[Fidd]

Err no. It couldn't. For a start the tail-gunner *had* to be well forward of the tail position to keep the C of G correct for takeoff. The top gunner was busy watching the t's and p's (engineer) and the ball turret was unoccupied in case of a forced landing after takeoff. The waist guns were stowed. Hmm, lets see, that leaves the chin turret... maybe?

Fidd

 

Originally posted by Jebo44:
Exile,

...In a real life situation a B17 could fire while rolling down the runway. That function is turned off to help out the vulcher dweebs.

[sax]

My opinion, leave em alone.

They are not that hard to kill if you have patience.

If you wanna die in a hurry, go in level, co-alt, and staight on it's six.

Check out beemers stats if you need proof that buffs can be an easy kill.

He gave me a few lessons, combined with common sense, success.

Sax

[Bohica]

Leave em alone.

STop draggin scenarios into this, things can be changed for scenarios.  That has no bearing at all on the main arena.

Its an easy kill if you are patient.  The attacker is killed easily if he is stupid (as it should be)

The Lanc was well known for perfoming a "corkscrew" manuever to shake off german fighters, as it wasn't flown in close formation like the b17.

The B36 used to turn inside the f86 sabre jets at alt and cause em to stall and spin.

B17s flew high to make interceptions difficult.  it made the geometry much more difficult.

The B29 regularly flew above 30k till late 1945 when most guns were stripped out and more bombs were loaded for the carpet bombing campaigns.

Cheers
Bohica

[easymo]

 "If HTC works with the ideal of democracy"

 Ya'all arnt from around here. Are ya? (bend, spit)

[Spatula]

Leave em as they are. If anything make them tuffer.

[janjan]

Why do you think a lone bomber shouldn't make evasive actions?

1st fix should be the buff firing arcs. Why the hell can they shoot thru vertical stab?

Gunning itself is fine but needs more dispersion. Although that can be pretty bad as well since it's easier to hit to manouvering target. But i still rather take few hits than get that dence death ray if the gunner is good.

Agree the bombing should be harder.

Btw, there were a lot more than just hundred plane bomber formations. Ur mind is just seeing Bob and late war allied strategic bombings.

Recon & interdiction was used a lot! And those were done by single or small number of airplanes. And how could all those German bombers do their thing late war with all that allied air superiority? Because they flied in small formations and counted on surprise and speed.

[Trell]

A

Trell

[Lucchini]

Only reduce the guns range from 1.5 actual to 7/800.
Add the death of the gunners so nobody in the future will be shot down while the bombers is going down destroyed and the gunner goes on in firing: this is very annoying. Besides due to g-force and fear I don't think it was possible to stay in the turret and man the gun while the bomber was going down.

Nothing more.

Lucchini

[LaVa]

A

Do anything to tone down the buffs then no one will fly them. period.

Hard enough to get plp to fly hvys to a target, make buffs easy prey, then they would all but disappear.

I do like the idea of adding extra perks for mission participation, but thats another thread.

Thanks

LaVa

[Pepe]

Speculation, LaVa. On one side, you do not know that. On the other, what you perceive a toning down, other might see an improvement. I speak form myself, but I WILL fly a lot more buff missions when there is some interest in this area:

• Flight Plan needed to have a godd approach.
• Accurate Bomb Damage effect
• Adequate Airfield Damage Pattern.

It's pitiful that WB is still far ahead of AH in this particular field. Of course, thats my particular opinion.

Cheers,

Pepe

[blitz]

Hi all ,

A

blitz out

[Glasses]

I'd say B but regarding buff guns I must admit I'm 20-4 against B17s and yes approach does matter when you're killing buffs(sometimes it doesn't since they can fire thru the airplane) but once in a while a well placed HO shot of 30mm ammo will kill the pilot.

As to buff guns ,here's an idea as the bombers goes up in alt(I think the Buffs don't have an FM per say) the guns should be less powerful and accurate ,since the current system we have gives advantage to buffs over fighters when at high alt(barely can you maneuver with them) after a certain alt the 50 cal guns would gain more dispersion and less firing range making them untouchable but not indestructible at such extreme alts.

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Glasses---I may have 4 eyes ,but you only have one wing.
Besser tot als rot

[Fariz]

A