The F4U1-C

[Maverick]

It was explained to me that the entire reason there are perk points and perk planes was to avoid the arena being out of balance due to the introduction of late war "uber" planes. It seems to me that the premise of balance is a fantasy. The chog and niki show in the numbers that there is no real balance as far as play in the game is concerned. Since a balanced MA is not a reality in practice why is HTC bothering with perking the rest of the "uber" planes? Stop the nonsense of perks, points and scores. Just fly what ya want how ya want. If you can't handle that then get a box game.

Mav

[Fatty]

It would seem the main reason for the increased numbers is people believed the hysteria, right up to when they got killed by an A5 or D9.

[funked]

I am sure there will be "another Chog" if they perk it.  That doesn't bother me, as long as it's a plane that had a significant role in WWII, instead a plane that barely saw any action.

[Vulcan]

Comon people the Chog is not that big a threat. Its not a world-beating airframe, I've never found the chog to be a major challenge (in a tiffie). Spray and pray at d1.1? Sure chogs do it all the time, but so do 51s, 190s, Jugs, and Dhogs... all with the same net effect - a lucky BB does damage. A gentle weave usually takes care of most sprayers.

Chogs only get to me when all they do is pull stupid HOs (as in stupid by blowing all E to pull the HO). Then I do the channel #1 "die..." as they go down in flames.

Perk the chog and they will move to something else, my $$$ is on the the N1ki, then Spit.

I would like to see the N1ki FM examined. OK maybe it can zoom, but the torque thing is a question. And the n1ki is one of the few a/c that can follow my tiffie through a 500kias manoevre. Surely such a light airframe could not withstand those forces? The same manoevres pull 109s, 190s, 51's, Jugs, and Spits apart -> why not the ultra-light-airframe n1ki?

[Tac]

Again vulcan, 51's, 190's (ive never seen one spray beyond d.700 though) jugs and dhogs will not kill you 90% of the time with that ONE golden bb. Also, take into account that your tiffie generally gets beyond d1.1 much, much faster than other planes, so you may not experience this "problem" as commonly as others (btw, "gentle weave" in a non- 190d9/p51/tiffie = chog gets closer in most cases)  

I would like to see the n1k fm examined too. Turn at 9gs 360 and still have E and power to climb after and CATCH a P-38 that is climbing 90 degrees up after a 450 mph dive is something I find extremely hard to believe.

[whels1]

 

Originally posted by Fatty:
If you want more perks, just perk everything over 1.0 k/d.

N1k was what, 8th best k/d of fighters last tour?

i say perk any plane  version past its original production model.
that means until we get F4U-1A, the Dhog would be base model, P51b base model 51D perk, and so on and so on, a5 A8 f7 base, D9 152 perk.  what ever the earliest model planes we have of each kind should be base plane and the other later versions perk.

the later the version the more perkies it should cost to fly.

Whels

[Karnak]

I agree with RAM, but only because of its usage numbers.

10% of all fighter kills I can live with, 20% is ridicules. I don't see the N1K2 in anywhere near the same league as the F4U-1C.  If it were made a cheap, say 10 point, perk I believe the F4U-1C user would disperse to several other aircraft, probably the following aircraft would get the majority:

F4U-1D (F4U fans)
N1K2-J (spray and pray, need a lot of cannon ammo guys)
Spitfire MkIX (has Hispanos and like to turn guys)
Typhoon (has 4 Hispanos and is fast on the deck guys)
La7 (fast on the deck and turns alright guys)
P-47D-30 (has a lot of ammo and ordinance guys)
P-38L (has a lot of ammo and ordanance guys)
Fw190D-9 (fast on the deck and has a lot of ammo guys)

The F4U-1C offers more versatility in a single package that any other aircraft.  That is why it is, and will always be, the most common aircraft in the MA unless it is perked.  There is nothing wrong with being the most common, but when the next aircraft in line has less that 50% of the kills the leader has, there is an imbalance.  The reason the F4U-1C is so good is as follows:

Scale Used:
Terrible Poor Average Good Excellent

F4U-1C
Speed: Good
Climb: Average
Dive: Excellent
Firepower: Excellent
Durability: Excellent
Acceleration: Poor
Ammo Endurance: Excellent
Roll Rate: Excellent
Fuel Endurance: Good
Ordinance: Excellent
Turn Capability: Good

Lets compare the runners up:

N1K2-J
Speed: Poor
Climb: Good
Dive: Good
Firepower: Good
Durability: Average
Acceleration: Excellent
Ammo Endurance: Excellent
Roll Rate: Average
Fuel Endurance: Good
Ordinance: Average
Turn Capability: Excellent

Spitfire F.MkIX
Speed: Average
Climb: Good
Dive: Good
Firepower: Good
Durability: Average
Acceleration: Good
Ammo Endurance: Poor
Roll Rate: Good
Fuel Endurance: Poor
Ordinance: Average
Turn Capability: Excellent

The F4U-1C simply does too many jobs better than any other aircraft.  When you have a single aircraft that fills so many rolls, and fills them on the spur of the moment, it is obvious that it will get picked most.  People will pick the best all round tool for the jobs out there if they are going into an environment in which they don't know what kind of job they will have to do.  If they know before hand, such as do close base defense, they will take the best tool for the job, but if it is unknown they will take the tool that best covers as many jobs as possible.  Far and away, in Aces High, the F4U-1C is that tool.

The F4U guys will still have a hog in the form of the F4U-1D, they lose nothing.

Perk the damn all-in-one fighter!
Perk the F4U-1C!!!

------------------
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

Bring the Spitfire F.MkXIVc to Aces High!!!

Sisu
-Karnak

[Animal]

this is not about the map, or the planes, or the guns. its about psychology.

people dont like to lose. so they look for something to blame, and the other guy is very easy to blame.

i can beat any chog just fine in a P-38. I might have some problems beating a chog in a 202, but if i think well, i can take my time and beat it.

because I am a better pilot. i am such a better pilot, that i see little difference between my plane and what the other guy is flying.

------------------
Nethawk:Does your squad openly shoot down chutes?
Fatty:At times, but only if they want to.
Nethawk:Theyre scum
Fatty:cc they are scum

Fatty:as am I

Fat DRUNK Bastards

[Tac]

Speed: Poor
Climb: Good
Dive: Good
Firepower: Good
Durability: Average
Acceleration: Excellent
Ammo Endurance: Excellent
Roll Rate: Average
Fuel Endurance: Good
Ordinance: Average
Turn Capability: Excellent

I'd make some changes to that:

Speed: GOOD (you mean 450mph is POOR? That thing can hold that E forever)
Climb: Good
Dive: Good
Firepower: Good
Durability: Good (takes a toejamload of lead to kill, can fly and fight without wings)
Acceleration: Excellent
Ammo Endurance: Excellent
Roll Rate: Good (can roll as almost as fast as la5... thats average?)
Fuel Endurance: Good
Ordinance: Average
Turn Capability: Excellent (heh, unreal more like it   )

Added:

"this is not about the map, or the planes, or the guns"

Animal, you still believe your GF when she says size dont matter do you?      

[This message has been edited by Tac (edited 04-22-2001).]

[mrfish]

pleeeeeeeeeeeease make them stop make them stop!!!

join me this week in national 'stop whining about the fu*&ing hog week'.

show your support by wearing a blue ribbon (with yellow ends).

chog whines waste an average of 26 minutes per day and can lead to cancer of the genitals. chog whines have also been known to lead to teen pregnancy and misbehavior. help me stop the madness. chog whines waste valuable time that could be wasted online.

oh yeah my opinion....let's see....hmmmm....perking it sounds like a great idea - just make it cheap. oh....also not perking it sounds like a great idea - also talking to my cat sounds like a great idea as does having a piece of gum.....i could care less i kill plenty of em- dont you?? - but please do something these thread are getting irritating.

(this response was funded entirely by the 'friends of stop whining about the fu%%%ing hog week' and no federal money was issued to this end)

[Animal]

yeah fish, i wanna buy a blue & yellow ribbon

today i will wear my "stop whinning and start TRAINING" t-shirt


but i wont wear any pants.

------------------
Nethawk: Does your squad openly shoot down chutes?
Fatty: At times, but only if they want to.
Nethawk: Theyre scum
Fatty: cc they are scum

Fatty: as am I

Fat DRUNK Bastards

[Karnak]

Are you guys even literate?  We keep writing and you guys keep having a different conversation. Here you go, try understanding this:

Its not about <censored> LOSING TO IT!!!!

GOT IT?

Its about the freaking fact that it has 20000 kills and its nearest rival has 9000!!!

Some of us simply want to have fights with things other than F4U-1Cs.

GOT IT?

No, of course not.  That would actually take the ability to read.

Tac,
I stand by my assesment of the N1K2.  My reasons are as follows, where we disagreed:

Speed: Poor (370 is poor.  I have never had it come even close to sustaining 450.  Every fighter can reach 450, so by your logic all fighters have good speed.  I don't buy it.)
Climb: Good
Dive: Good
Firepower: Good
Durability: Average (I was being generous.  I have NEVER had one take a beating, regardless of what end I was on.)
Acceleration: Excellent
Ammo Endurance: Excellent
Roll Rate: Average (Its roll rate is average because it is good at low speed and poor and moderate to high speeds, thus Average.)
Fuel Endurance: Good
Ordinance: Average
Turn Capability: Excellent (The Spitfire MkIX, Spitfire MkV, Seafire MkIIc and A6M5b all out turn the N1K2, that hardly makes it unreal.  Gee, those five are the best turning aircraft in the game, they all rate excellent.  Imagine that, things that turn well, turn well.)

------------------
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

Bring the Spitfire F.MkXIVc to Aces High!!!

Sisu
-Karnak

[This message has been edited by Karnak (edited 04-22-2001).]

[Tac]

Aye, yet I stand by mine because:

Speed: Only P51, 109s, yaks and la's (dunno about 190's..maybe the d9?) can KEEP 400 mph + for long periods of time. My P-38, a 205 or a spit can go up to it after a dive that for sure, but level and see how fast it bleeds out. N1k can keep it much longer than most other planes.

Durability: Maybe its a varying degree of experience. with what plane do you usually shoot a n1k with? 50 cal planes barely hurt that thing on a short burst (when compared with hitting a P-47!), 20mm cracks it after a good burst, 30mm+ will kill it (of course lol). Ive had n1ks without wings keep on fighting (aka looping endlessly) taking snaphots at its attackers.

Roll Rate: I said good because most fights happen at 350 mph or less. Try using rudder when trying to roll at high speeds, you will keep up with all good high-speed rollers.

Turn: N1k turns a LOT better than spit or zeke at 300mph+. Add that to the insta-E drive and we'll see who keeps turning the longest  

On a side note, how many chogs and n1ks did you stumble on per day on the uterus map? I never saw more than 2 a day on average. Isles map, its 50+.

That say something ?

[Karnak]

Hows this for an idea, have the ENY values directly reflect the number of take offs by non-perk aircraft.

The F4U-1C would remain unperked, but ENY values would be changed to the numbers (using kills instead of take offs as I don't have access to takeoffs) in these examples:

F4U-1C: ENY 10
N1K2-J: ENY 22
Spitfire IX: ENY 24
La7: ENY 38
P-51D: ENY 47
Bf109G-10: ENY 53
Fw190D-9: ENY 56
A6M5b: ENY 65
C.202: ENY 1176

Have the ENY values canged hourly, or daily to reflect aircraft usage in the MA.

If the ENY divergence redlects their real usage, and the perk rewards are dramatic enough, maybe people would actually pay attention to the ENY values.  As it is, the ENY values have gradually declined until they are no longer a motivating factor in flying that aircraft.

BTW,
It would be better to do this based on number of take offs with a given type, not its kills, but I don't have access to those numbers.

------------------
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

Bring the Spitfire F.MkXIVc to Aces High!!!

Sisu
-Karnak

[This message has been edited by Karnak (edited 04-22-2001).]

[Animal]

well karnak you seem to hang around CVs all day cause I see F4U as much as any other plane.

in fact, i see more 190 than f4u.

alright, perk it. let say everyone flies the chog like you babble about.
those people will move to another plane. professor karnak will be pissed.