Bush knew of Hijack threat before it happened

[Ripsnort]

LOL, thks for the Minn. update banana.

[Masherbrum]

A Navy SEAL being a governor is great thing.

Masher

[midnight Target]

Soooooo,

Where are all the Republiclowns who were all over this board screaming about the demise of our intelligence gathering ability due to Clinton, the fact that Clinton could have "gotten the bastard" X amount of times, how Clinton was the real cause of our lack of warning for the WTC?

Who knows how many warnings or indications there were before the attacks. GWB probably did what anyone would do with the information given to him. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of the partisan politics played out on the BBS.

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by midnight Target
Soooooo,

Where are all the Republiclowns who were all over this board screaming about the demise of our intelligence gathering ability due to Clinton, the fact that Clinton could have "gotten the bastard" X amount of times, how Clinton was the real cause of our lack of warning for the WTC?

Who knows how many warnings or indications there were before the attacks. GWB probably did what anyone would do with the information given to him. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of the partisan politics played out on the BBS.

If I remember correctly, someone posted a link to the budget slashes that the CIA encountered from 92-98...facts and data do not dillute into hipocrascy.

[midnight Target]

And budget cuts do not equate to ineffectiveness.

[Sikboy]

Originally posted by midnight Target
And budget cuts do not equate to ineffectiveness.

Heh, cut my budget and watch my effectiveness drop Of course it can't get much lower than it is!

I think you're both onto something with regard to the Intel situation. We NEEDED (and still need IMHO) to reinvent our Intel practices to deal with new threats in the post Soviet world. Part of our perception was that we could do more with less. I think this was especially true with the CIA, who were trying to figure out what to do with all of its Cold-war spooks. (although the NSA is right behind them. Millions in Electronic SIGINT equiptment, and these guys are using smoke signals lol) God knows I was a huge waste of money working as a Russian Linguist in the Navy. We were pleanty ready, but no-body had the dough to come out and play.

Anyhow, I'm getting away from the point. The idea of earlier Intel drawdowns was pretty much the same as what the Bush Administration is trying to do with the Military. Restructure to fit a post cold war environment. Leaner, faster, better. The cuts themselves weren't necessarily what caused a failure. It's a post hoc ergo proctor hoc argument.

-Sikboy

[Otto]

OK, I have a 'Bill Clinton' defense for G W B

Week One -  "I didn't know anything......"

Week Two -  "Ok, I knew a little bit......."

Week Three - "OK, I knew a lot, but it's old news........"

[miko2d]

Originally posted by banana
Miko, I think I'm quite right, insofar as the majority of posters on the OT forum. With a few exceptions(You, Sikboy, even Ripsnort on occasion), most of the posters on this OT forum are so rock-ribbed in their Republiclownism that they can't even begin to be objective.

 That is always a problem with a gathering where membership is open and not filtered in any way.

 If you think that many people here are narrow-minded prejudiced ignorants, the smartest thing you can do is not get involved in arguments with them or at least not to stoop to the same level of arguments - unsubstantiated personal statements. If you care so much, produce facts for their education but do not hold your breath.
 What you are doing is alienating a few people that you consider rational by your blank statements - which makes them think you are one of the ignorant guys.

 Just wait a few minutes after you've typed your post but before you hit that "Submit" button. In many cases you will decide to delete or modify it as the discussion may appear not worth getting involved in.

 miko

[BotaBing]

I currently have information that muslim terrorists are planning to hijack something.

LOL that is true every day for the last 50 years.

[majic]

I honestly don't remember anyone vilifying Clinton for not foreseeing the first WTC attack or the attack on the embassies or the Cole.  In retrospect, however, there were all kinds of posible warning signs.  But how could he (or his administration) have stopped those attacks?  How could Bush have stopped the 9/11 attacks with the information available?  For those who are saying he could have done something, exactly what is that?

What was known:

CIA suggested that Al Qaeda may be looking to hijack a plane (or planes), most likely abroad.

FBI? posted a report that Middle-Easterners may be learning to fly commercial jets in the U.S. with bad intentions.

OBL warned of upcoming attacks by video tape (which he had been doing for a while and wich came true twice...embassies and Cole)

What the administration did:

Notified FAA and SecTrans who in turn notified the airlines of possible hijack theat.

Increased security at military bases and embassies abroad.

(this was all brought up at todays White House press briefing and not in dispute)

[Sikboy]

Originally posted by Ripsnort
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/16/politics/16INQU.html?ex=1022126400&en=39284647d5a85528&ei=5006&partner=ALTAVISTA1

Granted, it was "The threat of knowing Bin Laden wanted to hijack in the traditional sense, not knowing that suicide extremists would take part in the sneak attack..."

Do you think he's to blame or partially to blame for 9/11?

So tell me Rip, exactly what type of spoon do you use to stir this pot anyhow?


-Sikboy

[midnight Target]

Originally posted by majic
I honestly don't remember anyone vilifying Clinton for not foreseeing the first WTC attack or the attack on the embassies or the Cole.  In retrospect, however, there were all kinds of posible warning signs.  But how could he (or his administration) have stopped those attacks?  

Please allow me to refresh some memories...no names just quotes:

Unfortunately, the bill for buying peace by hosing a few cruise missiles off into empty camps in Afghanistan has now come due.... the "interest cost" was two buildings in NYC.

And if the FBI has it right 9-11 was planned during Clinton presidency

clinton changed bush's orders, then didn't give the military the resourses they needed, then pulled out when we got our noses bloodied, leaving the terrorist of the world to believe that we are a bunch of collective rutabagas.

Clinton letting him (Saddam) get by with kicking out the UN weapons inspectors about 2 or 3 yrs ago.

We trusted him to do his job and to defend this nation which he swore to do...what we got were 8 years of embarrassment and 4000+ innocent people killed.

Maybe if Clinton had kept his promise, an estimated 5,000 people in New York
and Washington, D.C. that are now dead would be Alive today.

Just for fun:

why is it that the Clinton Administration
spent more money chasing down Bill Gates over the past eight years than
Osama bin Laden?

[Pongo]

Originally posted by hblair
He's no more to blame than Roosevelt was for Pearl Harbor.

Is it generaly accepted yet that Roosevelt knew there was going to be an attack at pearl? It is certainly fairly widley held..

[GWH]

Originally posted by Pongo


Is it generaly accepted yet that Roosevelt knew there was going to be an attack at pearl? It is certainly fairly widley held..

It's not generally accepted, primarily because the evidence  doesn't support such conspiracy theories.  There are a few books out on this theory (generally pushed by people with an agenda other than objectivity) that have been debunked.  With 20/20 hindsight, it would appear that there might be something to it, but pre-war American intel ops focusing on Japan could be described as a vacuum cleaner without a bag - they were gathering info, but the prioritization, processing and dissemination capabilities just weren't there.

[AKIron]

What should the administration have done differently? Racial profiling at airports? Hell, even after 9-11 and 3000 dead we still don't do that. Ironic that those who are the most critical would probably scream the loudest if practical measures likely to identify and contain the threat were implemented.