Author Topic: "They raped everyone from eight to 80" (Read 4798 times)

--am-- · « **Reply #195 on:** May 30, 2002, 10:19:20 AM »

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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
The russians were the agressor on finnish borders, don't forget that.

You speak it with such pathos, that one Russia is possible to think in XX century only conducted wars. Russia not businesses anything, that her distinguished from other countries, especially "democratic". At Russian there is a saying " If you to live among the wolves, you âîé as the wolf differently you will break off on a part "

MrRiplEy[H] · « **Reply #196 on:** May 30, 2002, 10:24:03 AM »

--am-- and Boroda let me ask you a few things..

During USSR, were you happy? It didn't bother you not to be able to express your opinnions without getting interrogated by KGB or Stasi etc..? It didn't bother not to have free press?

It didn't bother you weren't allowed ever to leave the country? It didn't bother you to have significantly lower standard of living compared to all capitalist countries? It never bothered you to have an industry which spews out pollution reducing the average life expectancy to 50 years? That's still the reality in petrozavodsk. There is an industrial area which has 10 square kilometers of barren area - all trees and vegetation has died from the toxics.

What's your stand on those details?

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #197 on:** May 30, 2002, 10:24:15 AM »

Well "german military phenomenal" and employing tactics brand new to the world with new technologies on weaker less-prepared armies with older technologies are two different things.

You can see how the german military became less and less phenomenal as the war progressed. They were prepared to wage a quick war by decimating defenses and moving quickly.. hence "lightning war".

Had they run into a Russian army at full strength, I think the outcome would of been a lot different.
-SW

Boroda · « **Reply #198 on:** May 30, 2002, 10:25:53 AM »

AKSWulfe, thank you.

I hate to say this - but the "purges" topic was originally raised by dr. Goebbels...

My Grandfather, a cavalry officer, a brigade commander was "repressed" in 1933... He was released after a year on Baikal-Amur railway, all charges dropped. The reason for the arrest was that he was a former Imperial Guards low-rank officer (Pskov dragoon regiment, on the front since 1916). One of my Grand-Granfathers was sentenced in 1939 for an accident on the railway line he was in charge for, an "enemy of the people"

, but his daughter married the officer who worked with the most horrible and secret weapons of that time...

But. But - in fact, during "Stalin's purges" we had two times less people in prisons then we have now. And now Russian Federation has only the half of the population of the USSR

--am-- · « **Reply #199 on:** May 30, 2002, 10:27:01 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
The russians were the agressor on finnish borders, don't forget that.

You speak it with such pathos, that one Russia is possible to think in XX century only conducted wars. Russia not businesses anything, that her distinguished from other countries, especially "democratic". At Russian there is a saying " If you to live among the wolves, you to work as the wolf differently you will break off on a part "

Russia one, and wolves around was very much. It England and France and Germany and Poland and Romania and Japan.

And even Finland, truth she was not the wolf, and fox, which provoked fight, that the large wolves have rushed on Russia and have broken off her on many slices and then Finland would manage a piece of Russia

MrRiplEy[H] · « **Reply #200 on:** May 30, 2002, 10:28:03 AM »

You speak it with such pathos

Damn sure I do. If people in this discussion state that Russia did not initiate a war, I have to disagree.

I'm not saying Russia is the mother of all evil and started every war there ever was, but you can't say it didn't start wars either.

Just as I can't say finland didn't start wars - we did initiate the continuation war by allowing german troops to attack northern russia via finland which inevidently lead to war with russia.

But the question (not really even a question) remains would this war ever have come unless russia attacked finland 1939? IMO it wouldn't - and we would have so much better relations between the two nations today.

cvb--- · « **Reply #201 on:** May 30, 2002, 10:31:04 AM »

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Originally posted by Boroda

But. But - in fact, during "Stalin's purges" we had two times less people in prisons then we have now.

And which country TODAY has the highest per capita prison population? Anyone knows?

--am-- · « **Reply #202 on:** May 30, 2002, 10:32:51 AM »

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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
--am-- so now you're comparing real world investigative journalists and historians to ufo stories? I bet you believed the story too untill they revealed the hoax.

Yes I compare, because when make money on a hot theme it not the researcher, is the businessman, which for the sake of 300 % arrived will make any crime.

I the very mistrustful man. I believe to the documents, instead of fairy tales written in the books or told with the screen TV.

MrRiplEy[H] · « **Reply #203 on:** May 30, 2002, 10:33:00 AM »

USA me thinks..

Boroda is right.. Prisons stay empty if you put a bullet to the head of all the political enemies

MrRiplEy[H] · « **Reply #204 on:** May 30, 2002, 10:34:24 AM »

Sorry --am-- but your response was in cyrillic letters. Most of us on this board can't read them.

RRAM · « **Reply #205 on:** May 30, 2002, 10:34:42 AM »

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Originally posted by AKSWulfe
Well "german military phenomenal" and employing tactics brand new to the world with new technologies on weaker less-prepared armies with older technologies are two different things.

hummmmmm less prepared armies maybe...weaker?

the anglo-french army in may'40 was almost twice as big as the germans, and teh french tanks were not only more numerous but also more battleworthy to start with (half the german tank strenght was made of tin cans with 20mm or 7.92mm machineguns while the french had much better tanks)

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You can see how the german military became less and less phenomenal as the war progressed. They were prepared to wage a quick war by decimating defenses and moving quickly.. hence "lightning war".

Seawulfe, you must read some story of the battles in Russia before talking with so much security here. Germans became less and less phenomenal as the war progressed because their soldier pool was drying, and because they were heavily outnumbered anywhere.

There are multiple instances and examples on how the wehrmacht kicked some serious butt up to early 1944. However, since BAgration onwards, that was forever over.

German commanders were awesome on the offensive but were also superb on the defensive. See Manstein's actions during winter'42-spring'43 to get a grasp on what I am talking about...or see Balck's delaying actions on the eastern front in 1944.

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Had they run into a Russian army at full strength, I think the outcome would of been a lot different.
-SW

WEll, they ran into an army wit 28000 tanks, and 8 million soldiers, with just 4 million soldiers and barely 3500 tanks...

In december'41 the red army had lost almost several millions of soldiers (between death and captured), and the Red ARmy tank force consisted on less than one thousand tanks. 1000!!!!!!!!

Germans were so tough to crack not because the revolutionary concept of offensive warfare they had, but because they were -SIMPLY- brilliant tactically, operationally and (in the rare instance when Hitler didnt mess into it), Strategically. In other words, the german Wehrmacht is one of the best,if not the best, armies even fielded on a battlefield, commanded by some of the best commanders the world has seen (Manstein, Guderian, Rundstedt, Balck...only to name a few)

MrRiplEy[H] · « **Reply #206 on:** May 30, 2002, 10:37:45 AM »

Now this Boroda what RRAM says could almost be considered revisionist quite contrary to what Hortlund says. LOL.

It's not against swedish law to spew out facts which they had been taught in school.

straffo · « **Reply #207 on:** May 30, 2002, 10:38:34 AM »

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hummmmmm less prepared armies maybe...weaker?

the anglo-french army in may'40 was almost twice as big as the germans, and teh french tanks were not only more numerous but also more battleworthy to start with (half the german tank strenght was made of tin cans with 20mm or 7.92mm machineguns while the french had much better tanks)

it just prove that a paper army can fail ....

I agree in theory the Allied had more power but in real they failed because a lack of initiative and skills.

--am-- · « **Reply #208 on:** May 30, 2002, 10:43:10 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
But the question (not really even a question) remains would this war ever have come unless russia attacked finland 1939? IMO it wouldn't - and we would have so much better relations between the two nations today.

At least we order itself honourly. We persuaded two years finnish government. We offered twice more grounds, than asked Leningrad, we offered trade, weapon and guarantees of borders. All of you have rejected. You have compelled us to be at war. But even when we have won you, we did not begin to include you in structure USSR. You were âåðîëîìíû. You together with Hitler have attacked us without any notices and warnings. Also it is not necessary now speaks, that we are guilty, that you were at war on the party nazis. Everyone chooses itself. Both of you of time have chosen war.

RRAM · « **Reply #209 on:** May 30, 2002, 10:45:51 AM »

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Originally posted by straffo

it just prove that a paper army can fail ....

I agree in theory the Allied had more power but in real they failed because a lack of initiative and skills.

thats what I meant with "less prepared armies, yes", straffo

...

The french army was thought to be the best in the world in 1939, it sure had lots of numbers on it...

but it was an army not ready to deal with the german army because its defensive mind...I'm not talking about the "maginot line" collective strategic mind, but of more operational and tactical paralysis in the french army command...

there are several instances of this command paralisys, the most important of them involving one of the french heavy armored divisions' Chars used as static defensive pillboxes instead of conducting a counterattack which could've threatened to cut the german drive towards the Channel...

so I agree with you that the french army was NOT ready for what the germans did on them...but it would be unfair to call the french army "weaker" than the german. It was WAY more powerful, but simply not well commanded. And that is where the wehrmacht excelled, in its command ranks.