Author Topic: F6F built to kill jap zeros??? (Read 602 times)

ZeroPing · « **on:** June 21, 2002, 02:17:33 AM »

really? why? what is good about F6F vs Zero? it cant turn with it at all

Kweassa · « **Reply #1 on:** June 21, 2002, 03:08:00 AM »

Come to the CT in Pacific Arena setups.

That'll give you a whole new meaning to the word "joust".

wipass · « **Reply #2 on:** June 21, 2002, 03:50:47 AM »

For starters it's faster, you can disengage at will, you decide how the fight progresses, with e you can turn once with a zeke and then disengage.

In a zoom with a zeke on your 6 the zeke should drop away a lot faster allowing you to time your reversal on to a stalling out zeke.

It's also a lot stronger than the zeke (in RL).

An F6F versus a zeke should never lose, all things being equal at start of engagement.

wipass

wulfie · « **Reply #3 on:** June 21, 2002, 04:41:36 AM »

Your statement about 'the F6F not being able to turn with the A6M' is sort of incorrect.

At 350 MPH IAS (300 MPH+ IAS in terms of roll), the F6F is more maneuverable than the A6M is in nearly every axis of maneuver.

F6Fs are made to fight at 300+ MPH. The second the A6M wanders into that realm of speed, the F6F outperforms it.

If an A6M is performing amazing evasives at 200 MPH, it doesn't matter. Because an A6M at 200 MPH cannot travel enough distance to keep it out of the gun arc of a well flown F6F travelling at 350 MPH (where the F6F pilot can maneuver his aircraft just fine in almost any axis without having to 'work hard' in terms of applied stick force).

Add in the fact that...

Every 16 F6Fs were 16 Naval Aviators who trained from day one to attack in pairs and/or 4 aircraft elements, and the element leaders had schooling in fighting as a 16 aircraft force.

Most A6Ms used the doctrine of 'a really hot stick backed up by 2 lesser sticks', fighting in groups of 3 at the most.

...the average speed of air to air combat increased as the war dragged on. The F6F was a mid war design. The A6M was a pre war design - maybe the best pre war design of them all - and an excellent design. But the F6F design had the advantage of experience.

That, combined with better US *doctrine* (not pilot skill, no one go crazy on me) spelled doom for the A6M and A6M pilots in general.

If an A6M took alot of hits, the pilot was probably a casualty. The survivability for an F6F pilot if his aircraft took heavy damage was much higher...so your pilots have a better chance of gaining experience and staying alive.

So when some very experienced Japanese pilots die in action, their replacement face a more hostile environment, and a much lower chance of surviving to become very experienced pilots...

Even Sakai said that as a group the teamwork of USN/USMC F4F pilots was far superior to that of the IJN/IJA pilots.

Think of it in terms of this - take 16 good AH pilots, and have them train in the A6M3 for a duel vs. 16 F6Fs. Only let them train together in groups of 3. Take 16 different good AH pilots and let them train in the F6F for a duel vs. 16 A6M3s. Let them train as a group of 16.

I'll put my $$$ on the F6Fs every single time. Maybe you should arrange this, and look at the AH films of the duel. It would be a cool learning experience.

Mike/wulfie

SirLoin · « **Reply #4 on:** June 21, 2002, 05:30:38 AM »

A good Zero pilot can get an f6f...Let him get E on you and when he decides to come down for a 6 shot......Keep speed low for snap turns and taunt him every time he misses.If he's like most f6f pilots after a taunt,he will come in with less E every pass.And when u decide for the shot put the nose down and get some speed for his overshoot then you paint his sorry Ami butt!!!

*Disclaimer...Cavalear would never fall for this...

Hristo · « **Reply #5 on:** June 21, 2002, 06:54:52 AM »

That's just waiting for F6F's mistake. And what if he kills the zeke before making one ? Zeke will be on the defensive most of the time.

laz · « **Reply #6 on:** June 21, 2002, 06:56:48 AM »

Zekes stalls?

Kieran · « **Reply #7 on:** June 21, 2002, 07:31:31 AM »

Hellcat was already in development before the first Zero was examined. The captured Zero confirmed design decisions already made by Grumman, but to say it was purpose-designed to beat it is likely wartime propaganda.

BUG_EAF322 · « **Reply #8 on:** June 21, 2002, 07:50:51 AM »

Stalling zero's ? ive seen em flying like frisbees
really funny to see that

they twist but still flying it's amazing

Ripsnort · « **Reply #9 on:** June 21, 2002, 08:00:18 AM »

What Kieren said, however, there is alittle truth to "developed to beat the Zero"....

US Naval Archieves:

Quote

Developed from a project started by the company to evolve a successor to the F4F Wildcat, the Grumman F6F Hellcat benefitted in the design stage from early operational experience of US Navy pilots in the Pacific theatre, and from a feedback of information from the Euro- pean Allies who had then been involved in war against the Axis for some 18 months.

wipass · « **Reply #10 on:** June 21, 2002, 08:52:55 AM »

Thanks for the

lazs

so if it can't keep up and continue climbing with the F6F, what happens to it ultimately, it hovers ?

or does it stall out (stall not spin) or does the pilot have to get the nose down ? either way he's bugged out and you are above him,

or if not then what ?

wipass

Apache · « **Reply #11 on:** June 21, 2002, 09:17:04 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by wipass
Thanks for the lazs

so if it can't keep up and continue climbing with the F6F, what happens to it ultimately, it hovers ?

or does it stall out (stall not spin) or does the pilot have to get the nose down ? either way he's bugged out and you are above him,

or if not then what ?

wipass

Thats not lazs.

Squire · « **Reply #12 on:** June 21, 2002, 09:47:35 AM »

And what if the F6F pilot(s) fly in pairs and dont listen to the taunts?

Yep, lots of burning IJN.

There is a reason that the USAF didnt fly Sopwith Camels in Korea, despite the fact the Camel can easily out turn an F-86 or a Mig-15.

Think about it.

TMASTadon · « **Reply #13 on:** June 21, 2002, 10:14:51 AM »

Havent flown the F6 much here in AH but it was my main ride in AW and zeke's were easy meat for F6's in there. The little I have flown of the F6-5 here in AW it seems to be, if anything, superior to the F6 of AW, which makes sense because the AW F6 was the F6-3.

The only time zekes are a danger is if you got low and slow around one with no room to get some E back. Even running into a zeke Co-alt was no worry, just get the nose down, pick up some E and dont give him any lead turn angles. Keep the fight verticle, NEVER flat or going down, always going UP. Zoom through, go into climbing spirals, high long loops, ropes, zooms & hammerhead and you cant lose against a zeke. Even if the zeke gets a few snap shots the F6 can take A LOT more hits than the zeke can. When he break turns, which he will do, you can follow a 1/4 or 1/2 of the turn with him and get a shot or two off, thats all it takes to drop a zeke. If you miss, extend and go back into the verticle. Stay fast and keep the fight verticle, always going up.

RRAM · « **Reply #14 on:** June 21, 2002, 10:25:59 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by wipass

so if it can't keep up and continue climbing with the F6F, what happens to it ultimately, it hovers ?

Bassically....yes

Just kidding you, of course

On a more serious note, the start of this tread kind of reminds me a discussion I had the other day with a newbie in the training arena regarding the Spitfire IX and Fw190A8

. Sure, the A8 is no turner (at low speeds), and the spit will be hard to kill, but starting from a Co-E start, you should blew it bigtime to lose such a fight