Author Topic: War on Drugs  (Read 3303 times)

Offline Wlfgng

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War on Drugs
« Reply #180 on: August 08, 2002, 08:05:47 PM »
I agree that it's such a minor matter legally that it doesn't need to be changed.

As to answering your question about which type of 'user' I'd rather have fly my airliner, operate on me, etc...
and in the vein of this

  "same same IMO
  both leave you less than optimum. "

I would prefer neither.

Your point is well taken about not getting into a debate about how many puffs vs. how many drinks, swallows, whatever...
I don't have a clue how one would go about comparing or trying to come up with a number for level of impairment.  I don't really know how the number for legal impairment for alcohol consumption was arrived at either.

My contention is that if X pot smoker and Y alcohol drinker had fairly even levels of 'impairment' that it would be a tossup.
One could say that one, I don't know, 2 hits of pot compared to one martini that the pot smoker is more impaired.
One could also say that 6 joints would be equal to say, 12 martinis that the martini drinker is more impaired.

Either way doesn't matter to me because I'd prefer neither and think that both are 'impaired' and have less than full use of their brains and bodies.

Drink, smoke, party, whatever... but be responsible and don't drive.     or operate..    or fly...

so all you pot smoking, beer guzzling AcesHigh players.. put down the joystick...:eek:

Offline BUG_EAF322

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« Reply #181 on: August 08, 2002, 08:13:15 PM »
Quote
Marijuana in my opinion is a door. Despite whatever I think of it and its dangers which many like SW can refute with counter medical opinion, once you allow the legalisation of Marijuana you allow the next drug a chance to have its day. Heroin will be next and we can start a thread on how good it was the the Opium heads of the Chinese dynasties and it never did them any harm.



This is big roadkill i had many ocasions that i could use hard drugs
i always was against it

Kicked some "friends" out of my house coz they used coke

It's not a door to bad things the only door is urself

Again i'm using it 16 years and never got in to the harder thing

Come to holland and see it for urself before u make any opinion.

Many women come to coffee shops coz they know people are not agressive like alcohol drinking people.

:D  (facts)

Offline BUG_EAF322

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« Reply #182 on: August 08, 2002, 08:28:55 PM »
When i drink alcohol

- my brain cells fade away

- i get headaches

- i have no control of my body

- sex sux

- my liver dies

- i'm sick the day after

- my breath stinks

- my my sweat stinks

- i gotta toejam the toilet

- i get thin blood wich can be dangerous

- i can get agressive

- i'm just doing plain stupid

and when i drink to much i can get addicted and DIE on delirium




When i smoke a joint

- i get stoned

- my brain still work and don't get effected

- i wake up the next morning having a good sleep

- i still have control off my body

- sex is great

- i'm basicly relaxed

and when i smoke to much this could give a bit headache
it's not fun
Ur not getting stoner

and the taste is gone to,so it doesn't happen

anyway ur not dieing from it



hmmm
(not many side effect after that)


Huh what should be illegal ??


to be short with alcohol the are more doors to encounter trouble in life than weed.

THINK THINK THINK

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #183 on: August 08, 2002, 11:23:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Wlfgng
have to agree with Elf a bit..

and disagree...
 snip

you say you're ok to drive after two beers..
they say it's ok to drink after a joint...

same same IMO
both leave you less than optimum.

snip---


Is this a fruedian slip or what?

Offline SC-Sp00k

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« Reply #184 on: August 09, 2002, 05:29:31 AM »
To many up there to quote to actually quote them.

Every aspect of the Pro-drug arguement so far in this thread is based on alcohol and Tobacco.  Their legal so Cannabis should be also.

When you put all that rubbish above into that one simple sentance, does it make sense to anyone? Certainly not to me.

The Pro-Drug Hollander who says I have no idea what im talking about and I should live there before I open my mouth on the subject.  Show me the evidence that says it works there?  I can only find it to the contrary. Cannabis is Cannabis. Its may come in different forms and strengths but its still shares the same qualities. No different to Horses.  Your women arent going to coffee shops cause the bars have drunks. Who do you expect to believe that? What a complete load of Codswallop. Their going to get stoned. No less so than any other hop head walking in their for their daily dose.

Bug is telling you that he has done it for 16 years and nothings happened to him. He wasnt tempted by harder drugs. Well, Good for you Bug.  Unfortunately your story isnt shared by all who smoke dope. Children walking about like Zombies in Shopping Centres today may well be alive and mentally well in 16 years to. Would you want your child to spend their formative years bent out of shape and stoned like a moronic idiot?

Keeler wants you to read an article from CNN.  CNN doesnt state in any way shape or form that they advocate drug use mind you. But because CNN report a statistical report, it must be righteous.
On that article... Tell me there isnt something a little more than bizarre about this group that thinks 3 ounces! is for personal use.
LOL.  The Group NORML is a college spawned newspaper pushing their own agenda on Cannabis.  I'll be blowed ! A College newspaper pushing for the legalisation of Cannabis!  Now theres NEWS.  Its a media spin Keeler. Dont get to excited unless the entire state of Nevada has completely lost its mind. I doubt it.

Wlfgng.  There are many Pro-Drug reform groups out there pushing for the legalisation of Heroin. These groups contain good and bad elements.  The mindless want it cause they like it and be damned with everyone else and the others who quite rightly perceive a need for change as the current system isnt working.  The 2 groups are often intertwined and the message of the sensible workers for the cause can be blurred with the morons who fight against a system they never seemed to fit in with anyway.

The Government. Yours, mine and theirs, are always willing to throw some amount of money at Universities, Colleges, Social Welfare Groups and working committees to find answers. Give a project a name. Forecast a Report and tell them its new and someone desperate for an answer will rally to your cause.

Meth Amphet Labs can be created out in the middle of nowhere, far away from prying eyes in a section of Woodland where trespassers are rare.  Meth Amphetamines are a HUGE problem.
How long before it becomes to much of a problem.  How long before the cost of fighting it outweighs the stigma of social well being?  Not long.  Heroin is experiencing its turn at the legislation plate now. Already the wheels are in motion with certain Drug Reform groups pushing the legalised and supervised barrow.
Cannabis Reform is a process no different in form.  It will be the benchmark of all the rest to follow and the EXCUSE some desire to push their own Pro-Reform agendas.

You are seeing an example of it right now.  Pro-Cannabis supporters using the Alcohol Prohibition to support their arguement in almost every post.  All people need is the opportunity.

SW. Man are you missing the point. Your justification against my arguement is as ludicrous as your yourself believe my arguement to be.

You mention Pharmacutical (sp?) drugs and put them alongside Cannabis stating that they are as freely available as each other.

They are when your ILLEGALLY using Pharmacutical Drugs LOL. They are for the most part prescription based.  Druggies use them to bolster their own such as Methadone. One of Drug Reforms great failures in many respects. But it is a tool being abused by Addicts.  Those who abuse legally prescribed and supposedly monitor Pharmacutical drug doses in prescribed medicinal quantities are Drug Addicts.  Are you using them in your Legalise Cannabis agenda?


Again with Ritalin, Prozac, and the rest.  Abuse them. Take them in quantities not prescribed and use them for purposes alterior to their design and YES. That is wrong.   If your child requires Prescription drugs, the sane sensible and responsible Parent will ensure that they follow the instructions so their child is not placed in danger.  You make it sound as if they are being handed out by Responsible parents to children like lollies or something.

Children who are addicts are no different in need than Adults who are addicts.  Its a little sadder, but not different.

No you cannot take as much prozac, xanax, ritalin and  pain killers, as you want it will kill you.

The most agonising Overdose death of them all can be something as simple as abusing Paracetemol.  You take 40-50 tablets one day.  (Thats not an overstated number by ANY means).  You wake up the next morning feeling great. 2-3 days pass without any problems. You dont give a thought to the event 2-3 days ago.  Next thing the intense severe abdominal cramps start and by then its to late.  Complete Renal failure and death.

An example of a domestic drug in every day use which doesnt require presription that will kill you as well as any of the big boys.

Paracetamol used to be kept in the First Aid stations of workplaces of this Country for the Headache sufferers and pain relief. Now its against the law for the reason described above.  The workers in blissful ignorance still argue the point cause people have no idea what is good for them half the time and what is not.

Same with the Dope User.  It looks good. Its smells Good. Its everywhere so it must be good.  Lets all have some.

Quote
Drug addictionexists around cubicle in every office building in the US... and that's without the illicit drugs.


And that SW.  Is why I am argueing against you.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2002, 05:36:29 AM by SC-Sp00k »

Offline BUG_EAF322

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« Reply #185 on: August 09, 2002, 06:02:55 AM »
Quote
Unfortunately your story isnt shared by all who smoke dope. Children walking about like Zombies in Shopping Centres today may well be alive and mentally well in 16 years to. Would you want your child to spend their formative years bent out of shape and stoned like a moronic idiot?


those kids just have to give something to blame

actualy they begin with alcohol who says not huh ?  THINK

yeah in holland there less drug crimes

and less drug deaths


btw weed is not really legal but coffee shops and self use is allowed

u drink ur beer i smoke my joint to relax so what's the point

kids do get cigarettes kids can get alcoholics and so the can get get weed to  but i more worrie when they going for harder stuff

u always have these types around who u can't stop

but most kids do now better when educated well



Quote
Children walking about like Zombies in Shopping Centres today may well be alive and mentally well in 16 years to. Would you want your child to spend their formative years bent out of shape and stoned like a moronic idiot?


aren't those kids a bit drop outs . No my kid should get on any drug IMHO

But what makes u think those kids wouldn't use
alcohol instead

and there nothing more irritating than drunk people (REAL IDIOTIC MORONS WITHOUT SELF CONTROL)

Offline AKSWulfe

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« Reply #186 on: August 09, 2002, 09:22:54 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SC-Sp00k
And that SW.  Is why I am argueing against you.


and I will repeat this one more time, perhaps it will sink in.

There is absolutely no scientific/biological way for someone to become addicted to marijuana. Period. End of story.

Elfenwolf- cannabis is only linked to ecstasy and other synthetic drugs because of the presidential executive order in 1983. Before then they were never linked... marijuana has absolutely nothing to do with the other illicit drugs other than being illegal.
Read up on it's history, it might surprise you why it's illegal in the first place.
-SW

Offline Wlfgng

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« Reply #187 on: August 09, 2002, 09:40:12 AM »
BS that marijuana use is a 'door' or leads to harder drugs.
It's just like the statement that listening to rock and roll will make you a killer.. BS.
The fact of the matter is that some people are prone to doing certain things and acting certain ways.  Some people have addictive personalities.  These people will find the harder stuff, abuse themselves, abuse others, etc  no matter what... don't use the marijuana excuse.  It just doesn't hold water.
I can't tell you how many people have 'launched' their drug intake by starting with booze.  

It's also BS to lump Pot into the mix with harder drugs like heroin.
Simply ludicrous.
If we follow that line of reasoning why not lump asprin into the same bin as heroin.

Pssss.. there's HUGE difference.

My point is  simply that using ANY drug impairs you.  Period.

The Important variable is how much.

and yeah.. that was a typo earlier:)
« Last Edit: August 09, 2002, 09:45:48 AM by Wlfgng »

Offline midnight Target

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So Why is Marijuana Illegal?
« Reply #188 on: August 09, 2002, 09:54:22 AM »
Quote
Marijuana was not made illegal due to health reasons. In fact, the National Institute for Drug Abuse released a pamphlet that stated, ''There is little evidence that the drug is physically addicting. There is nothing in marijuana itself that causes people to use other drugs. No definite neurological study of humans has turned up evidence of marijuana related brain damage. There is no direct evidence that marijuana causes cancer in humans.'' (Rosenthal and Kelly, 1996)

So why is marijuana illegal? In the 1930's the US Department of Agriculture proposed making paper from hemp-based fiber but it was put on hold until the government could find a way to separate hemp pulp from the fiber cheaply. When a machine was invented, tree paper companies invested massive amounts of money in advertisements to make cannabis-hemp illegal so all paper would be made of trees and they would continue to profitable.


from
THIS Site.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #189 on: August 09, 2002, 09:57:48 AM »
elf is correct in all his points.

I would add... I would love to see pot completely legalized for comercial sale but... not for use.   You could not drive while under the influence.   Several hits on a joint of good weed would be too much.   You also could not work at certain jobs that required public safety and being a pot smoker would be enough reason to deny advancement in most proffessions.

life for me is hard... I would love to have it filled with a bunch of pot smokers using public transportation.    The competition at work and socialy would be easier and the roads would be less crowded.   Perhaps the large tax on pot would appease the liberal tax and spend guys for a couple of weeks and give me a little more of my money to spend.    As I get older I get slower and if I have to get into a fight it would be great to do it to some slack jawed pot smoker.    Practical jokes are more fun when played on pot heads.   The best a pot smoker can do is fake being alert.  Even I can beat that.

All in all... win/win
lazs

Offline AKSWulfe

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« Reply #190 on: August 09, 2002, 10:06:08 AM »
Lazs, when it gets to the point you agree with Elfenwolf, you should realise your grasp of the subject at hand is extremely limited.

Elf- to answer how much impairs me- I can drive home after 3 blunts (bigger than joints).. I can also drive home after 12 beers.

Either way- I shouldn't, but I can and won't get into an accident.
-SW

Offline Wlfgng

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« Reply #191 on: August 09, 2002, 10:07:04 AM »
Quote
As I get older I get slower and if I have to get into a fight it would be great to do it to some slack jawed pot smoker. Practical jokes are more fun when played on pot heads. The best a pot smoker can do is fake being alert.


lol

hey lazs.. you tend to quote the 'get in a fight' thing.  You into 'contact' sports or something ?
Or is it a 'life in Dixon' thing ?

Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #192 on: August 09, 2002, 10:12:21 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKSWulfe


and I will repeat this one more time, perhaps it will sink in.

There is absolutely no scientific/biological way for someone to become addicted to marijuana. Period. End of story.


Quote
Posted by AKSWulfe a bit earlier in the same thread
Mentally dependent, OTOH, yes...
[/b]

I think we are all still waiting for you to explain the difference between a "normal" addiction and a "mental" addiction.

Is this where you are going to tell us all that someone with a "mental" addiction is less likely to commit a crime to support his drug habit than someone who is "biologically addicted"?

Offline AKSWulfe

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« Reply #193 on: August 09, 2002, 10:14:31 AM »
Well first Hortlund, I will ask you to read more carefully.

Dependent means you think you need it. Addiction means you NEED it.

One you can stop doing if you want to with no regrets. The latter is almost impossible without a very strong will.
-SW

Offline Elfenwolf

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« Reply #194 on: August 09, 2002, 10:39:26 AM »
"Marijuana could help save the enviroment by preventing deforestation." MT, how is that? Are people so desperate to get stoned they're smoking our forests? Or is the author talking about deforestation to manufacture paper?? LOL OK, since I started out the week semi-serious I'll end the week semi-serious.

We currently grow more timber in the USA than we harvest. And, in fact, we have since the 1970s or thereabouts. The idea that hemp paper will save us from enviromental ruin caused by deforestation is laughable. That article was obviously written by someone under the influence of something.

There's no point in arguing the relative effects of alcohol, marijuana, peyote, acid or asprin. I have been telling my kid for 17 years that drugs are bad for you. I have been telling my child this because I don't feel pot, even conceding its relative harmlessness, would be in her best interests to smoke during her formative years. Believe me, she has enough of a problem getting through homework without her getting stoned being thrown into the mix. Rather cannabis deserves the same legal status as Ecstacy, Meth, crack or whatever is irrevelant- it HAS the same legal status, and to turn around now and legalize pot sends the wrong message to our kids.

Pot is already decriminalized to the point the recreational user has little to fear from criminal prosecution, and personally I don't care rather you smoke pot, get drunk, cross dress or whatever in the privacy of your own home. I don't care, the police don't care and the courts don't care. Do what you want, but remember, your kids will emulate your behavior. Do you want them smoking pot?

BTW all for the relative civility on this thread. wSnpr called me on the phone yesterday and told me I was lucky he had to leave town for the weekend, but when he gets back he'll shoot my stance full of holes. LOL I can't wait :)