Author Topic: Brief thoughts on Sadam  (Read 1656 times)

Offline Hortlund

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Brief thoughts on Sadam
« Reply #30 on: August 06, 2002, 02:53:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by wsnpr
Question to all you Saddam is pure evil and will destroy the US:
How will he destroy the US?
Surely, if one nuke, chemical, or biological attack on US soil, killing innocent civillians, would result in that attacking country being turned into glass. The US is the only country to have used nukes in the past and won't hesitate to do so in the future in retaliation. Quit being so paranoid. Saddam can't hurt us that bad. He'd just sign his and all of Iraq's death warrant if he tried.

Smallpox, botulism or anthrax. Try to defend yourself against that. Suppose there is an outbreak of anthrax again, but this time there are 10 000 letters instead of just 3-4. If that happens tomorrow, who do you nuke?

Offline Hortlund

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Brief thoughts on Sadam
« Reply #31 on: August 06, 2002, 02:55:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by miko2d
Could it be that we declared ourselves his enemy, not the other way around?
 


Does it matter?

(Ill answer the rest later)

Offline midnight Target

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Brief thoughts on Sadam
« Reply #32 on: August 06, 2002, 02:59:49 PM »
No matter how bad Saddam is, he is still a pretty decent buffer against the spread of Moslem fundamentalism in the area. He might even be the lesser of 2 evils.

Offline Hortlund

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Brief thoughts on Sadam
« Reply #33 on: August 06, 2002, 03:17:01 PM »
Saddam Hussein the lesser of two evils?
What are you guys smoking anyway?

Offline miko2d

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Brief thoughts on Sadam
« Reply #34 on: August 06, 2002, 03:30:24 PM »
AKSWulfe: Not a good comparison Miko. They are a far cry from what they were when they were our enemies. And it wasn't until they changed their government (and leader) that we became "friends", which we still really aren't.
 So what? It's a matter of time. Who could have believed even that much in the 80s? If we stayed friends with Iraq, exchanged people, culture, etc. - wouldn't we have affected them in a beneficial way?
 And if Kuwait and Saudi Arabia were part of Iraq - all the better.

Please tell me how you convert people against their will to another religion?
 Electrodes? Genitalia?...

Could it be that we declared ourselves his enemy, not the other way around?
Hortlund: Does it matter?

 If we back off he will probably let us save our face somehow.

 What will happen if we invade/almost invade and it so happens that there are no trace of WMD in Iraq? Appologise and restore him? Plant the evidence?

Saddam Hussein the lesser of two evils?
What are you guys smoking anyway?

 He was not our concern before he decided to reattach a province grabbed by medieval princesses and renamed Kuwait. Not particularly evil. Now posessing any notable WMDs. What changed?

 miko
« Last Edit: August 06, 2002, 03:33:26 PM by miko2d »

Offline senna

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Brief thoughts on Sadam
« Reply #35 on: August 06, 2002, 03:40:19 PM »
If Spain invades Portugal today, would the US go in tomorrow to save Portugal? Personally I think the military would be too preoccupied with the Spanish woman but there is a chance they would fulfill there mission. Still the point here is would the US interfere militarily to save poor little Portugal. Whats needed here is the reason why Kuwait seems more important.

:D

Offline midnight Target

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Brief thoughts on Sadam
« Reply #36 on: August 06, 2002, 03:47:56 PM »
There are many reasons we would save poor Portugal! Here are just a few:


Portugal is the 16th leading tourist destination worldwide?
According to travel figures released by the World Tourism Organization (WTO), Portugal now ranks 16th worldwide. In the year 2000, arrivals of over 12 million tourists gave Portugal a 1.7% share of the global travel market. Last year, 300,000 Americans visited Portugal.

Portugal is an Atlantic country?
No, Portugal is not a Mediterranean country! Its entire coastline is on the Atlantic, and, like Florida, its southern coast, the Algarve, contains some of Europe's finest beaches and resorts.

Portuguese is one of the worlds' most widely spoken languages?
More than 200 million people speak Portuguese worldwide - only 10 million in Portugal but over 160 million in Brazil and the rest in Angola, Mozambique and other former Portuguese territories in Africa and Asia.

Portugal is a founding member of the European monetary Area?
Europe has a new currency, the Euro, which was adopted on January 1, 1999 by 11 European Union countries, including Portugal.

Portugal's exports go into outer space?
Cork, of which Portugal is the world's premier producer, is used as a sealant on U.S. spacecraft parts.

George Washington drank Port wine?
The nation's first president may well have toasted his inaugural with the very libation that made Portugal famous. We know he often entertained his guests with a glass of Port.

Portugal exports minivans to Germany and Japan?
Yes, Portugal sells cars abroad. Ford and Volkswagen joined forces in Portugal's largest foreign direct investment, AutoEuropa. Established in 1995 and located just south of Lisbon, in Palmela, the plant has been producing and exporting 98% of output to the rest of Europe and Japan.

Portuguese aviators were the first to fly across the South Atlantic?
They were Gago Coutinho and Sacadura Cabral who accomplished their feat in 1922.

Portugal has an Eiffel . . . bridge?
The same architect/engineer of the famous Paris landmark constructed the beautiful, arched D.Luis Bridge over the Douro River in Porto, Portugal's second largest city.

Portugal, like Spain and France, has bullfights?
There is one major difference, however. In Portugal, "toureiros" battle the bull but the animal is not killed at the end of the corrida.

Now there are some really good reasons!!!

Offline john9001

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Brief thoughts on Sadam
« Reply #37 on: August 06, 2002, 04:06:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by wsnpr


 Please tell me how you convert people against their will to another religion?



the same way Muhamed did it

Offline Hortlund

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Brief thoughts on Sadam
« Reply #38 on: August 06, 2002, 04:42:07 PM »
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Originally posted by miko2d
Who cares - unless he attacks US, Canada or Mexico or one of NATO countries he can do whatever he wants. He is in Russia's backyard. China is right there, India, Israel. Let them take care of their crap. You can buy a ticket and join Kurdish resistance any day.
[/b]
So what exactly was 9-11 to you? What exactly does terrorism mean to you? Is it an attack? How about this. Al Queida attacked the US on 9-11. Al Queida is funded by (amongst others) Iraq. Does this mean that Iraq shares part of the guilt?
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Even if it was any of our concern, it is still better than his neighbours that we protect from him. How about Pakistan? Afghanistan? Much democracy there since we liberated them?
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Who cares about democracy in these countries? Do you really think that Iraq or Libya are democracies just because they hold "elections"? Look at it this way, what countries have sworn to fight against Israel and the US?
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Not as much as Iran and Saudis & Co. And at the time we invaded him in 91 russa was a big terrorism supporter too.
[/b]
Uh, would that matter? Id say Iran and Iraq are funding roughly an equal amount of terrorist organizations, they are just funding different ones. As for the Saudis, name a couple that the Saudi GOVERNMENT is funding will ya.  
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 He is surrounded by medieval religious militant states who all hate him - who said those weapons were against us? I do not see you calling to attack Pakistan or India or Israel for the same reason.
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Nukes doesnt scare me as much as B&C does. Pakistan and India should be stripped of their nukes though, because they are all insane. Israel has proven that they can handle nukes. Pop quiz, what would happen if you gave one nuke to Saddam?
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Everybody named Israel as his main enamy - including Europe and more than half americans. As for US, we invaded them, whad did you expect?
 I bet if we appologised and offered restitutions - or even assurance that he can take back Kuwait and Saudi, he would revert to being our best friend.
[/b]
No one in Europe (except arab immigrants) has named Israel their enemy. Wishful thinking perhaps? So anyway...why did the US invade Iraq now again? And the US were far from alone you know...France was there too, so was the UK, Canada, etc etc.
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 BS. Russians could not do that, germans could not do that. He does not need to do that - plenty of our "friends" are more eager than him.
[/b]
Back in the Soviet Union era, there was a system known as MAD in place. Might have heard about it, "Mutual Assured Destruction" proved to work pretty well. Hint, MAD does not work against Moslem countries. As for Germany, that was long ago, very long ago.
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 BS. If he uses it against Saudis or Quwait, I do not care. Unless they apply to join NATO we do not have to protect them.
 He will not attack Israel first since that would mean complete obliteration of Iraq (among other things). And he is not a religious fanatic willing to die.
[/b]
Wishful thinking. As I said before, he would not be stupid enough to send a scud painted in Iraqi colors. But what happens when the first outbreak of smallpox occurs in Chicago? He is just as guilty as if he had sent it with a scud, but suddenly it gets complicated huh?
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 I suspect that Saudis will beat him to that.
 We cannot stop everyone who wants to blow us up - our security is nonexistant, our borders are open, our society is vulnerable. The safest way for us would be to mind our own business and stop pissing people off. They have anough problem of their own to worry about us.
[/b]
Why would the Saudis want to do that, when the US is pretty much acting like the Saudi defence forces? And you are totally wrong when you say that the safest thing for you to do would be to stop pissing people off. If you cave in to one terrorist organization and their demands, the next one will come along. Back down now, and it will get worse, not better. Too bad you wont realize that. And (for some reason) you wont realize that the US will never abandon Israel either. Your pacifist dream aint gonna happen. Live with it.
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Did we defeat Soviet Union? No. And where are they? Right - our friends now.
 How about China? Should we knock off their head of state?
 How about Duch? Those legalised pot. Should we save them and stop bad influence on US?
[/b]
Uh..Id say the SU was defeated. China is a sick diddlying country with no respect whatsoever for human rights. So yeah, you probably should knock off the commies there. As for the Dutch, well, different story, better leave them alone.
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 Here is the main and real question:
 Tell me, would you be calling for the same invasion if Iraq had never invaded Kuwait? Because I cannot see how his claim to Kuwait is linked to all those bad things.
 If he was our friend and client before invasion of Kuwait and if most americans do not give a damn about Kuwait, what did change? Could it be that we declared ourselves his enemy, not the other way around?

If Iraq behaved the same way it is now, you bet. Actually it is very fortunate that they did invade Kuweit. If not, Saddam would have had nukes by now.

Offline Jack55

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Brief thoughts on Sadam
« Reply #39 on: August 06, 2002, 06:38:22 PM »
Sad-um (G. H. W. B pronunciation) will be the former leader of New Texas. :D  Baghdad... oopps, I mean East Waco will be home of the reactivated 3d Cavalry Division and Camp Schwarzkopf, the world's largest military base.  ;)

Offline DJ111

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Brief thoughts on Sadam
« Reply #40 on: August 07, 2002, 12:36:39 AM »
Saddam is an insane dictator that likes to gas innocent men women and children.

 and "what would happen if Saddam was given 1 nuke?" he would probably be so happy he'd piss his pants.   And in a very short time , we would have a huge smoking , radioactive hole somewhere in Washington D.C. ...

 I agree with Hortland


 btw : we would have gotten him if the dam politicians would have let the Armed Forces finish Saddam during Desert Storm.
Retired CO of the ancient **Flying Monkeys** CT squadron.

Offline wsnpr

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Brief thoughts on Sadam
« Reply #41 on: August 07, 2002, 01:06:38 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund

Smallpox, botulism or anthrax. Try to defend yourself against that. Suppose there is an outbreak of anthrax again, but this time there are 10 000 letters instead of just 3-4. If that happens tomorrow, who do you nuke?


And just how would they get enough anthrax into this country? How would they handle it? Would they be able to cover their tracks? How many agents would be stuffing envelopes? High probability that a few agents self-contaminate themselves. Who would they mail them to? The main suspect seems to be an employee (US citizen, caucasian, non-arab) of a biological facility. If any foreign 'enemy' of the United States was caught in a NBC attack against US citizens, on US soil, you can bet that country would probably be wiped out. All active military personnel have been given the anthrax vacine series, so they'll be unaffected by an anthrax attack.
Look at the 9-11 attacks. We attacked a country (Afghanistan) because it was weak and not our ally. We had to strike at someone. Why not Saudi Arabia? Most of the terrorists were from there. OOPS not them, they're our ally. Egypt? Nope, our ally too. Pakistan? Nope, our ally plus they've got nukes.
How many Afghanistan people were responsible for 9-11?

Offline wsnpr

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Brief thoughts on Sadam
« Reply #42 on: August 07, 2002, 01:18:57 AM »
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Originally posted by DJ111
Saddam is an insane dictator that likes to gas innocent men women and children.


I take it you're referring to his attacks on the Kurdsh rebels along the border with Turkey. How come we didn't say anything before when Turkey (our ally) was attacking those same Kurdish rebels? How come we didn't say anything when Iraq was our ally? The US has had a hypocritical foreign policy dating back to the turn of the 20th century. We look away when it happens to be an ally but scream bloody murder if it's an enemy.

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and "what would happen if Saddam was given 1 nuke?" he would probably be so happy he'd piss his pants. And in a very short time , we would have a huge smoking , radioactive hole somewhere in Washington D.C. ...


Riiiight, and how would he deliver said nuke? How would he cover his tracks? He is more into preserving his life as well as Iraq, over his trying for the destruction over the US. Trust me on this: He or any enemy of the US will be wiped out if caught attacking the US with weapons of mass destruction.

Offline wsnpr

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Re: Brief thoughts on Sadam
« Reply #43 on: August 07, 2002, 01:42:48 AM »
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Originally posted by rogwar
After studying the releases in the news media I believe the USA is merely trying to inflame his anal leakage condition for the moment.

However, we may witness and example known as "hyperwar" in the immediate future. Should be interesting when and if such happens.

Question: What do you think will be the method and plan of attack?

Disclaimer: This is not to say we should attack Iraq or promote agression, but merely my comments on the current situation. The intent is not to start that debate with this thread.

Rogue out


Sorry about my previous posts on your thread rogwar. To answer your question, The US will attack only if the political domestic mess gets worse (If Bush is shown to be tied into that mess further than he is). We'll start with a smear campaign (the CIA's good at that) against Sadaam and probably invent a few things to inflame the American public. After the polls show that most Americans favor a military action, we'll work behind the scenes to keep most of the Arab world from intervening on behalf of Iraq. We'll start with tomahawks. Then we'll start the night bombings of tactical targets. Only after the Iraqi military is demolished will we then send in troops to capture Sadaam for trial (might just assasinate him). We'll install our favorite Iraqi dictator who'll do our bidding behind the scenes. There still won't be a democracy in Iraq but we won't care because he is our 'friend.'

For some good reads:

In Search Of Enemies by John Stockwell
Inside The Company - CIA Diary by Philip Agee
By Way Of Deception  by Victor Ostrovsky/Claire Hoy

Offline Dowding (Work)

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Brief thoughts on Sadam
« Reply #44 on: August 07, 2002, 02:20:42 AM »
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Nah, we would never sell arms to arabs...


As far as I know Arabs are not part of the ruling class in Iraq...