Surviving JABO attacks... let's add some incentive

[AKDejaVu]

Originally posted by midnight Target


So if I nurse a wounded plane back home and land it, I am penalized for reupping a new one. Doesn't really make sense.

So... the enemy structure stays down for however long it takes for you to get back to base and land (10 mins?)... and will continue to stay down for that much longer after you exit.  Its the whole grabbing a fresh/different plane and returning as if they hadn't just been shot to hell thing that I'd like to see penalized.

BTW Revvin... I think I kind of misunderstood what you were saying.  The proposal I've made could only apply to the person that took the target down... or to pending damage.  Once someone else comes in and finishes it (if it is within the 2 x the survival of the previous attacker) then its a moot point.  It would just mean that its less likely that someone that couldn't finish the job the first time can come back and build on that cumulative damage total.

AKDejaVu

[Revvin]

So... the enemy structure stays down for however long it takes for you to get back to base and land (10 mins?)... and will continue to stay down for that much longer after you exit. Its the whole grabbing a fresh/different plane and returning as if they hadn't just been shot to hell thing that I'd like to see penalized.

So if I get my damaged plane down so it can be repaired and up another in the meantime while the next pilot come's in later and uses my patched up plane to re-up while his is fixed; that is less realistic than a completely obliterated hangar respawning in 15 minutes? If you proposal includes a realistic downtime for the targets involved then it may merit a little more thought but right now on the surface what you propose sounds more like something Lazs would propose in one of his anti strat whines. I also think the solution is not as easy as you think.

[AKDejaVu]

Originally posted by Revvin
So if I get my damaged plane down so it can be repaired and up another in the meantime while the next pilot come's in later and uses my patched up plane to re-up while his is fixed; that is less realistic than a completely obliterated hangar respawning in 15 minutes?

So... what it does is encourage someone to get a damaged plane back as close to base as possible.  Nobody brings your plane back up.  The longer you survive in the plane, the longer the hangar/ack stays down..  Once again... 10 minutes to get back means 20 minutes... moot point for hangars... more important for ack.

If you proposal includes a realistic downtime for the targets involved then it may merit a little more thought but right now on the surface what you propose sounds more like something Lazs would propose in one of his anti strat whines. I also think the solution is not as easy as you think.

Realistic downtime for targets?  Hmmm... don't believe I ever introduced that concept.  I suppose we can have that just as soon as we can have realistic downtime for dead pilots.

AKDejaVu

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Turbot


Guys that know what they are doing can dive bomb a CV and live.  They can release bombs from higher alt than your typical CV suicide jockey.

I find suicide bombing of CVs to be about as lame as lame can get. No-skill dweebs who otherwise couldn’t hit their tulips with chairs love nothing more than to dive straight into a ship. I can think of several ways to put a stop to it via programming. But, you know what? I’m getting a gozillion kills shooting these dorks down with my Wildcat. CV commanders can help, and so can individual players. Here’s how.

1) Keep the CV at least 30k distant from an enemy airfield. That’s still within range of the cruiser’s 8” guns.

2) Don’t close the range until the enemy field under attack is reasonably capped.

3) Set up and maintain a proper BARCAP (barrier CAP) to keep enemy suicide dorks from ever reaching the TG.

4) Keep a local CAP on place to intercept any leakers.

5) Maneuver the TG as soon as the threat closes to less than 10k yards.

6) Use C-47s whenever possible. A Goon can fly across two full sectors faster than an LVT can waddle in from 8k out. There is little reason to bring a TG inside effective shore battery range. Anyone can level a town from 30k out (with 8” guns) if they take the time to learn to use the gun aiming system.

7) Discourage idiots from commanding TGs, regardless of their ranking in the game. In other words, introduce a penalty for the commander (maybe one death added to each category) if the CV is sunk (subject to last person who directed or commanded the TG). Over the past two days, I’ve watched the #1 ranked player destroy three TGs through shear ineptness. Just because you’re good at gaming the game, does not mean that you have clue-one about the proper use of a TG, which is a team asset, not a personal plaything. The player in question repeatedly took a TG from someone doing a good job, sailed it in a straight line, directly at the enemy. In each case the TG was destroyed. I’m beginning to wonder if ranking is not an accurate inverse indicator of intelligence, which tends to make me not strive to crack the top 50.

My regards,

Widewing

[Revvin]

Returning a broken plane to base so it can be patched up and used by the next pilot to bring in a crippled plane is what we should be encouraging as more realistic and yet you want to penalize it?

Realistic downtime for targets? Hmmm... don't believe I ever introduced that concept. I suppose we can have that just as soon as we can have realistic downtime for dead pilots.

Hence the "If you proposal includes a realistic downtime" I did'nt say you did but my first impression's were right that this thread is more about introducing more gamey aspect's in the interest of those who don't want strat to be in the game. As for downtime for pilots..well choose a target, one particular hangar or radar station. There is one instance of that target it IS the target and there are 500 max player in AH (250-300 Euro time) when in reality there were thousands of pilots flying in waves against those particular targets. The VH is down for 15 mins the same time as hangars which leads to the spawning of flakpanzer anfter flakpanzer to replace those destroyed acks so that point is moot.

[Fatty]

Pyro!  They're not dying right!

Make them die right!

[LePaul]

Perk the 1,000 pound bombs?

Oh geez, the buff element has been all but quashed, so now we're down to JABO planes on captures...now you wanna take the bombs away?  What next, perk cannon rounds?

No wait, nevermind, dont tell me...I wanna act surprised.

[AKDejaVu]

Originally posted by Fatty
Pyro!  They're not dying right!

Make them die right!

It has nothing to do with how people are dieing fatty.  It has to do with there not really being all that much of a point in living.

Have a broken plane?  better to ditch... you get back sooner.  Keep making passes until ack finally gets you?  Why not.. you'll just be back sooner.

Its not about what people are/aren't doing.  Its about what the game itself rewards/does not reward.  People could still dive in and drop a bomb on something getting a "you have destroyed xxx hangar".  All the reward and occomplishment is still there... its just doesn't last as long if you die doing it.

AKDejaVu

[Fatty]

When I push the stick forward and nose in I can promise you strat never enters my mind.  I'd imagine it's the same for pretty much anyone else dying on purpose, and the ones dying on accident are irrelevant anyway.

Not to mention back to the heart of gameplay changes, anything that discourages engagement is not likely to make it into a combat flight sim.

[AKDejaVu]

By default... attacking a base is an attempt to discourage engagement... just as taking out all the ack and vulching the field are.

Seems to me it would be adding a bit more of a reason for people to meet attacks head on as opposed to later after they become an issue.  In effect... encouraging engagements.

AKDejaVu

[DarkHawk]

Widewing
On you through of TG command, it should be that anyone command the TG must stay on board the CV. Such as give him a command spot near the top of the CV as long as he is there he has control but if he leave then he looses command and some one else can take command. IF you command the TG, you have to stay aboard the CV and control it not take command move it some where then go fly and not let some one else control it when danger arrives.
I have taken command a few times and when I do I am in a gun position so I can protect my TG and not get it sunk. But being of low rank I get over ridden and the TG goes to pot with stupid moves and no fighter protection.

comments welcome to the above suggestion

DarkHawk

[T0J0]

1.10=Furballers 1 buffers 0
1.11 Furballers 1 jabo 0
1.12 Furballers 1 Gvers 0

we need new lobbiest's...The ones we have now our biased...
 The AK's suicide Jabo as good as the rest of em...been there and watched it...

[ccvi]

Revvin is right, Dejavu's point seems pathetic.

A jabo that runs away and flies circles in friendly territody where it is save till max rebuild time and then get's shot down archives more than a jabo that runs away and lands.

After a jabo drops it is low alt, thus easy target. best option in that situation is to get away as soon as possible. I'm almost sure that was the tactic used IRL. And this is what should be rewarded in a sim.

Encouraging useless fights would be airquake.

[Widewing]

Originally posted by DarkHawk
Widewing
On you through of TG command, it should be that anyone command the TG must stay on board the CV. Such as give him a command spot near the top of the CV as long as he is there he has control but if he leave then he looses command and some one else can take command. IF you command the TG, you have to stay aboard the CV and control it not take command move it some where then go fly and not let some one else control it when danger arrives.
I have taken command a few times and when I do I am in a gun position so I can protect my TG and not get it sunk. But being of low rank I get over ridden and the TG goes to pot with stupid moves and no fighter protection.

comments welcome to the above suggestion

DarkHawk

As a general rule, I stay with the TG I am commanding. There are exceptions, such as when combat is hours away. However, once in proximity to the enemy, I am at or on the CV. By “at”, I mean that I will probably be airborne in a Wildcat or SBD, circling the task force. I do this for two reasons:

1) An aerial view allows me to more accurately assess threats, such as incoming aircraft, ships and PTs. This is critical for determining when torpedos are an actual threat, or will pass harmlessly by. This cannot be accurately determined from a gun mount.

2) I am the last line of defense for anything that gets past any existing CAP. Even the SBD (Slow But Deadly) can kill a Ju 88 or TBM. Indeed, you would be surprised how many kills I have with the SBD performing this function. You can even get a few Proxy kills too.

Frequently, you will get requests to take the TG in closer to the target field. Despite being well meaning, often such requests create unacceptable risks. Things to be considered are; what happens if the TG is sunk? Will this weaken our position? How long will it take to get another TG into the area. There are a myriad of things to consider prior to answering the request.

Regardless of all other considerations, TGs belong to that specific country, and misusing or mishandling it may have a notably adverse effect on the game for that country. Therefore wisdom is paramount in use and application of that asset. Using it as one's personal platform is irresponsible, and a common problem for all countries.

My regards,

Widewing

[AKDejaVu]

Originally posted by ccvi
Revvin is right, Dejavu's point seems pathetic.

A jabo that runs away and flies circles in friendly territody where it is save till max rebuild time and then get's shot down archives more than a jabo that runs away and lands.

LOL! Do you really think people would do this?  I mean... really?  Why not just rearm/refuel?  What good does flying circles to avoid all chance of death do?  You've effectively removed yourself from the arena.

After a jabo drops it is low alt, thus easy target. best option in that situation is to get away as soon as possible. I'm almost sure that was the tactic used IRL. And this is what should be rewarded in a sim.

I thought you said my point seemed pathetic?  You just spent an entire paragraph re-enforcing it.

Encouraging useless fights would be airquake.

Encouraging useless fights?  Where the hell did you get this one?  Dude.. you are totally coming out of left field here.

AKDejaVu