Author Topic: Knights are hereby put on notice.  (Read 637 times)

Offline Revvin

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Knights are hereby put on notice.
« Reply #45 on: March 20, 2001, 05:12:00 PM »
Sure give us "error diffusion" but also give us more realistic ground damage while you are there because while we have laser norden's buffers need them because you have to drop your bomb right on top of the target to do any damage at all as there seems to be no 'splash damage' attributed to ground targets.

As for ground targets being to oeasy to destroy, ok make them harder but increase the rebuild time, what is it at now? 10-15 mins...this is a joke right? if there is one thing making buffing pointless its the fast rebuild time, it requires too much down to the second co-ordination to take a field down, there is absolutley no room for error as the field pops back to life too quickly. Extend the rebuild time and buffs will fly in a historical manner.


Offline janjan

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« Reply #46 on: March 21, 2001, 12:57:00 AM »
We need area targets. Why can't airfields get damage if bombed to it's area?

Also, only runways should be rollable. So, bombing runways would become valid.

Cities can also be area tergets...no need for individual buildings.

Then we can have bomb drifting etc...

lazs

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« Reply #47 on: March 21, 2001, 08:30:00 AM »
sea.. that would seem to be a good idea.  I believe all the ideas are good.   What the real problem is, is that the BOMBERS AND THE STRAT are so gimicky and concession ridden that they are allmost impossible to fix with one simple solution.

Even combinations of solutions just point out the basic problem.... there really is no realistic use for bombers in the game and there is no realistic strat.  

The bombers and the strat are the two worst features of the game... they are the most gimicky, unrealistic and concession ridden and.... They are as impossible to seperate from each other as deja and the stick up his ass....  They share vital organs.   The bombers need something to do to affect the game but there are no targets and the targets we have are too small... too specific and too on or off.

Participating in the current bombing or strat takes the simulation out of the sim especialy when you compare it to the flight models and gunnery of say the fighters.
lazs

[This message has been edited by lazs (edited 03-21-2001).]

Offline Revvin

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« Reply #48 on: March 21, 2001, 10:40:00 AM »
HTC could put plenty of strat into the arena but you fighter jocks would spit your dummies out, small things can be done right now like increasing the rebuild time of hangars etc with more stuff added later such as supply lines etc having effect on aircraft but again you'd like nothing more than to see bombers taken out of the game completely judging by the comments made in your last post. If anything is gamey and gimmicky its the ground vehicles and the ground war.


Offline DoKtor GonZo

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« Reply #49 on: March 21, 2001, 10:45:00 AM »
Well, I think we could take a few ideas from "the past", and a couple new ones, and get a good solution. Such as:

- Have there be some amount of time for the bomb sight to "settle" a'la WarBirds. Right now you can drop bombs, spin the big bird around in a 90 degree bank, and get right back to dropping.

- For strategic bombers, they can ONLY drop their load in halves a'la Air Warrior. So 7 1k's at a time for the Lanc (or 1 4K, then 9 1K's). This means the bomber dude has to actually plan out his delay settings and approach. So a heavy gets two passes at a field, and that's it. This may also make tactical bombers like the B-26 more useful for field captures since they will have finer control of their ordinance.

- Add the fragmentation damage as suggested - only fair if bombs will now always be dropped in large salvo. This means a couple of heavies would be there more to soften up a field with a couple of big salvoes, then let the JABO finish the job on anything left standing. Bombers should get perk points for partial building damage in such case.

- Add bomb drift as suggested. The higher you drop from, the more drift and separation in the pattern on impact - all random, of course. Which is good and bad. Bad because you no longer have precision guided munitions. Good because the swath of destruction 14 1000's can cause is pretty harsh. With salvo bombing and blast damage, you WANT a little driftage and pattern spread.

These changes would no reduce the defensive capabilities of the heavy strategic bomber. It would make that plane good for what it was designed for - laying waste to landscape from up high. 2 or 3 '17's or Lancs could still more or less take out a field, it'll just take more planning than is required now. You'd have to plan runs for multiple passes on the hangars to ensure enough damage on them, plus to get hits on secondary targets.

For HQ attacks, you'd need the escort to bring bombs to go down and finish the job if there was excess drift in the heavy drop. Which isn't altogether unrealistic. It would require a planned, cooperative effort to take out an enema HQ.

Oh ... and lets not have crater damage on runways. Anyone who's flown WarBirds in the last few months knows exactly why.

    -DoK

lazs

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« Reply #50 on: March 21, 2001, 02:23:00 PM »
revin and dok... both have good suggestions.  I would (and have) suggested also that the availability of fighters not be tied to the destuction of a building or two and that it be either tied to many revetments or simply that fighters be available till the field is completely closed.   Same with radar and fuel.  Agree with dok on the "cratered runways"  
 
I certtainly don't mind "splash damage" but I would hope that making more targets be part of it.  

rev... Oddly enough...so long as the entire (cough) "strat" of bombers is to punish fighters.... There will be animosity.   If "winning" the war was tied to the destruction of a couple of cities  while fields could be say, bypassed or at least not essential to winning... relations might improve.
lazs

Offline Revvin

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« Reply #51 on: March 21, 2001, 02:59:00 PM »
Laz> I like the fact that in AH you can hit the hangars and disable that vehicle, it adds a little more strat over other brands, but perhaps as a compromise how about staling an idea from the last WB map and have vehicles parked on the sides of runways as targets linked in with the existing strat. How about a group of buff needing to hit the hangars and (with some kind of "error diffusion" as suggested by Wulfe) harder to hit parked vehicles needing to be destroyed before that particular vehicle is disabled at a field? It would then require more ordnance to disable vehicles as we do now which keeps you fighter pukes (   ) happy whilealso giving hte buff pilot a little more strat and more targets to drop on. It also places objects over alot more of the areas of the airfields which are otherwise empty which will make carpet bombing (with a little more splash damage) a viable tactic and also create a situation where as Dok suggests more organisation is required with a few jabo pilots...although I would like to see a little less emphasis on jabo pilots otherwise buff pilots could again find themselves not needed in the arena anymore.

Dok's made a good point about the norden settling, I would liek to see a norden that takes even longer to settle to force buffs to make realistic egress' from target before returning...if its any consolation I do this anyway now.

I would'nt like to see the AW scenario of unleasing half a payload at a time, if we get better splash damage then leave this up to buff pilots, with more 'drift' on the bombs when dropping them the pilot who learns to salvo and set his delays properly will be more succesful, another skill for buff drivers to learn.

Also perhaps we could increase the toughness of buffs while decreasing the strength of the guns, while the 'B29 slave system' is a crutch for gameplays sake for those who are not in a squad or liek to buff alone I also realise this just makes hitting a group of buffs impossible if all their guns are slaved on one con. This again would promote buff pilots to be a little more organised, even lone wolves would perhaps realise its time to jump into the criminaly under-used mission planner we have in AH.

One a final note Lazs I think you are maybe being a little paranoid in saying "so long as the entire (cough) "strat" of bombers is to punish fighters" as hitting bomber hangars stops buffs and hitting barracks hampers field capture and also hitting radar and fuel affects all planes.

I have found buffing in AH quite enjoyable and like I said above I try to fly in a historical manner even though the game allows me to take shortcuts, its down to personal taste if you take them but I relish the challenge a few small changes would offer us buff pilots as outlined in the various posts above.

lazs

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« Reply #52 on: March 22, 2001, 02:38:00 PM »
rev... that is the idea with revetments.  all  planes in their revetments have to be destroyed before the field can no longer send up planes... simple and realistic huh?   the bigger fields would have more revetments.  Mainly, a field should be all but history before it is unable to send up fighters.

splash damage... less bomb accuracy and tougher bombers with less (cough) leathal guns.  All good ideas since they would in fact add realism and be more fun.  
lazs