Author Topic: the fields really do need to be closer together  (Read 1019 times)

Offline lazs1

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the fields really do need to be closer together
« on: December 26, 2001, 12:25:00 PM »
Yep... For the sake of all styles of fighting or gameplay...  With the fields so far apart people  are simply fighting at one or two locations.  The rest of the map is pretty much unused.   And why should it (the rest of the map)be?   Furballers aren't going to go where there are no people, especially if they have to fly over a sector to find out that there is no one to fight or that they are vastly outnumbered and/or there is nothing but some high alt ballet instead of what they prefer in air combat...   NO, they go where the fight is thickest... best chance for an even break and a chance to make it home without some cherry picker making a few B&Z runs on their low fuel out of ammo on the deck but half a sector from home and all alone spit or nik.

Strat guys have their work undone in the long time it takes to get to a field..  They also have the choice of milkrunning an unused field or braving the furball...  

If fields were closer together the front would move quicker and... there would be more action at more places on the map... better for everyone.

As proof... look what happens in that pitiful NDisles map.. The only good fights are when a CV is involved... The CV's cut the flight time in half and are the source of a lot of action (and fun)... Those areas are very popular.

Even a 10% reduction in distance would help everyones gameplay as would tougher CV's
lazs

Offline AKSWulfe

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the fields really do need to be closer together
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2001, 12:55:00 PM »
Back in WB (paybythehour2play days), the fields were very close together.

Mostly to increase action, while reducing the cost per hour to get to the action.

This meant fights were between the deck and ~8K....

Thems was some of my most fun times, but mighty expensive.
-SW

Offline lazs1

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the fields really do need to be closer together
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2001, 02:35:00 PM »
well.. my time is worth more than 2 bucks an hour these days but the idea is still good.. The front moved faster back then and everyone "participated" even if (like me) they didn't really intend to.  

With the fields far apart it seperates the different styles of gameplay and causes more resentment.
lazs

Offline LePaul

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the fields really do need to be closer together
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2001, 03:38:00 PM »
Hehhee, ok, so now you want the checklist to be...

1) Start engine
2) Roll
3) Gear up
4) Fire guns!

 :D

Just being the lone heckler here  :)  I think the distances are fine.

Offline Daff

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the fields really do need to be closer together
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2001, 04:29:00 PM »
Nah, all lazs wants is a map with a single field, 10k airstart (Apart from blue planes who get 12k and LW planes who get 8k)

Daff

Offline Gadfly

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the fields really do need to be closer together
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2001, 06:15:00 PM »
Hey Laz, if you play IL-2, I made this especially for you.  It is Laz's fightertown, but there is a ground war going between the bases.  Play it as a dogfight so you can refly at will as can new pilots.

 http://www.lizking.com/laz.mis
 http://www.lizking.com/laz.properties

(And it is pretty fun to play, too)

Offline Raubvogel

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the fields really do need to be closer together
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2001, 06:21:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Daff:
Nah, all lazs wants is a map with a single field, 10k airstart (Apart from blue planes who get 12k and LW planes who get 8k)

Daff

They have that in Fighter Ace. And  unlimited fuel and ammo. It's a hamster wheel fan's dream come true.

Offline lazs1

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the fields really do need to be closer together
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2001, 08:03:00 AM »
daff, gadfly and raub... now there is a trio for ya..   LOL..  Kinda proves my point huh?  and.... you can throw in lepaul who thinks the fields are fine as they are..  If you define what is fun by these guys you will spend your life hiding from each other.   Well... maybe not so much daff but he doesn't even play AH so he is even harder to find.

seriously guys... you can still take off from a back field 3 sectors away from anyone... yu can still mlkrun deserted fields and hide from the action... no real change for you except... you will have to hear people having fun and I know how much that grates on you.
lazs

Offline Hortlund

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the fields really do need to be closer together
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2001, 08:41:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs1:
With the fields so far apart people  are simply fighting at one or two locations.
[/b]
So if we cut the distance between fields in half...people will...what? Not fight in one or two locations? Perhaps not, because they will all be busy vulching eachother like baboons on acid. Can you imagine how incredible boring it will be to have a bunch of two week wonders hanging over each and every field?
 
Quote

Furballers aren't going to go where there are no people, especially if they have to fly over a sector to find out that there is no one to fight or that they are vastly outnumbered and/or there is nothing but some high alt ballet instead of what they prefer in air combat...
[/b]
First your saying that we need fields closer together to spread out the fighting, because now "people are simply fighting at one or two locations" then you say that the furballers wont go where there are no people.

So now I'm confused. Do the furballers want closer fields or not? And why do furballers act like grade school primadonnas?
 
Quote

 NO, they go where the fight is thickest... best chance for an even break and a chance to make it home without some cherry picker making a few B&Z runs on their low fuel out of ammo on the deck but half a sector from home and all alone spit or nik.
[/b]
Perhaps these furballers should start thinking about teamwork and tactics?
 
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Strat guys have their work undone in the long time it takes to get to a field..  They also have the choice of milkrunning an unused field or braving the furball...  
[/b]
Uh, now you lost me again. Most strat guys I have seen spend most of their time grabbing alt in their fighters or buffs. A low level furball (which is all you would have in your "lets have a MA with closer fields") is of no interest to them (nor is it a threat in any way).
 
Quote

If fields were closer together the front would move quicker and... there would be more action at more places on the map... better for everyone.
[/b]
Uh, no. Not for the furballers who "aren't going to go where there are no people, especially if they have to fly over a sector to find out that there is no one to fight or that they are vastly outnumbered and/or there is nothing but some high alt ballet instead of what they prefer in air combat..."
 
Quote

Even a 10% reduction in distance would help everyones gameplay as would tougher CV's
lazs
I'm probably incredibly stupid here arguing with the mightly lazs..who so eloquently slaughtered am0n in another thread not far from here. But where oh where did you get that 10% figure from? Admit it Lazs, you just grabbed it out of thin air. And why on earth would it help everyones gameplay? I like to fly E fighters, that means I spend the first 10 minutes after takeoff grabbing alt, often heading away from the nearest furball.

How about this: I say that a 32,5% increase in distance between fields would help everyones gameplay. If you have a 20 min ride to the target, you dont blow it all in one glorious suicide run just to strafe one pony on the ground.

Why was Bigweek so much fun? Because you only had one life, and you knew that if you had to ditch or bail or whatever, you would spend the next hour watching the radio, waiting for the next frame. How many pointless suicide charges did you see?

Spread the fields further apart, or better yet, enforce a 5 minutes waiting period before a killed or captured pilot is allowed to reup.

Steve Hortlund
Steve74

Offline AKSWulfe

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the fields really do need to be closer together
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2001, 08:46:00 AM »
Increasing flight time? That might work for you people who don't have lives outside of this game, but I can't spend 40 minutes just flying around (20 minutes there, 20 minutes back) just because someone wants to get an easy kill on someone bored out of his mind because he's been on autoclimb for the past 20 minutes.

Good thing HTC has enough sense to not implement that in the MA.

You ever notice how the maps used in scenarios and TODs are scaled down? It ain't "just because".
-SW

[ 12-27-2001: Message edited by: SWulfe ]

Offline Hortlund

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the fields really do need to be closer together
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2001, 08:51:00 AM »
I see your point, and I suppose everyone has a different opinion about this issue.

How about this then:
CT fields stay where they are (and that 5 min delay before reup is still on my wish-list)

MA a 10% reduction in distance -as it would help everyones gameplay.

Steve

[ 12-27-2001: Message edited by: Hortlund ]

Offline batdog

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the fields really do need to be closer together
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2001, 09:45:00 AM »
I think it fine as is. You always will have fields close enough to get about 5k and then go t and B to your hearts delight. You also have rear fields where one can get that 10-20k as desired... or more for some. It doesnt need changing.

 xBAT
Of course, I only see what he posts here and what he does in the MA.  I know virtually nothing about the man.  I think its important for people to realize that we don't really know squat about each other.... definately not enough to use words like "hate".

AKDejaVu

Offline lazs1

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the fields really do need to be closer together
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2001, 10:05:00 AM »
hortlund... where did you get the 10% number?  Just pull it out of thin air?   seriously... I did.. make it 9% or 15%  whatever..  Point is..

If fields are far apart then the majority of players will go to the one or two places on the map where there is some action.   This is bad for furball gameplay as there isn't much variety and a lot of wasted time.. It's bad for the strat guys because they either go to the action or milkrun.. in affect they are not even in the same game as the majority.

So... if they are somewhat closer then furballers will feel that they have a chance of making it back to base if they venture out to fight at another less popular location..  The front will obviously move faster.   strat guys will get soething accomplished and furballers won't be forced to "hang in there"  at an overrun field simply because it's the only game in town.

I don't see how you fail to realize that furballers congregate at only a few fields now and that the reason is that they simply won't waste the time to check out other fights.   There are nmo other fights worthy of a furballers time..  A lot of us feel that anything more than a few minutes getting to the fight is a waste of time.  3K, 5K 10K it makes no differense in a fur..  Alt is not a big advantage if at all.   SA and ACM win the day.   Come in high to a fur and you will just take longer to die and have less fun.  

If the fields were closer melee aficianados  would "take a chance" on some of the smaller fights knowing that if it didn't work out they had a good chance of making it back without being chased for an entire sector by faster and higher planes looking to cherry pick in a late war fast ride.

You may or may not be affected by closer fields if all you do is climb up to 20k and fight others of your ilk..  certainly it would in no way make things worse for you.   It is possible things would be better..  you would have more areas to chose from that had population.  

Obviously... you can't force people to fly like you enjoy and obviously... people don't.  There is a very limited number of people who don't go out of their skull with boredom at what you call fun... If you make an arena that "forces" people to fly that way you just have people logging off en masse..  

Proof?   Look at the MA and what the majority are doing.... See how fights tend to mass around CV's because of the action.. then look at scenarios that have fields far apart and many... or look at a CT that has low population density.   The later two are failures.   A scenario that allows quick action or a CT designed with high population density are popular.

To sumarize.. closer fields don't hurt you a bit so the only reason you can have for being against them is that it bothers you when other people are having fun.
lazs

Offline MANDOBLE

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the fields really do need to be closer together
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2001, 10:10:00 AM »
lazs, in the "game feedback/issues" forun you have a possible idea to have fields closer together. Check "Buidling up NEW fields" post.

Offline lazs1

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the fields really do need to be closer together
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2001, 10:13:00 AM »
Also.. you talk of "bigweek" and how superior it was to the MA because people were punished in the most severe manner for taking chances or mixing it up...  Just how fun was it?   350 people fun?  250?  100?  50?   Why not just run it over and over 24/7 in a seperate arena?   After a week or so we should see what people wanted.    
lazs