Author Topic: HTC, I'm confused! (Read 594 times)

Wlfgng · « **Reply #15 on:** September 30, 2002, 10:59:38 AM »

what a sweet buff-hunter.. kabooom

Nomde · « **Reply #16 on:** September 30, 2002, 11:38:13 AM »

PERK IT!!!

Wilbus · « **Reply #17 on:** September 30, 2002, 01:13:22 PM »

Sweet buff hunter would be the He 219 or Me 410. Me 410 with 2xMg 151, 2xMk 103 and one 50 mm cannon.

Or the He219 with 2xMg151 and 4xMk 103

Pongo · « **Reply #18 on:** September 30, 2002, 05:06:57 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Shiva

Given the German predilection for playing with the designs of aircraft, I'd be real leery of saying no 109 ever had a MK103 in the engine mount, or MG151/15s for cowl guns. No production aircraft, though, and therefore nothing that should be modelled in AH.

Granted.
But with just that drawing to go on. And looking at the engineering challenge to implement, with no record of one existing. why would we assume that it ever did?
But you are right. knitting two he111s together doesnt seem very likely either.

brady · « **Reply #19 on:** October 01, 2002, 12:36:28 AM »

I had the great pleashure/discomfort and serious suffering, in handeling a MK 103. The local military Museum has a MK 103 amongst other aircraft cannon and I must say that thing is a freaking Beast.

Pongo · « **Reply #20 on:** October 01, 2002, 01:25:19 AM »

I bet..not a compact little breach like the 108...look at the picture..a pilot is going to fly with that monster between his legs..not to mention the ammo is twice as long.
He wouldnt be able to push the stick forward at all.

Staga · « **Reply #21 on:** October 01, 2002, 05:34:34 AM »

IIRC 109s sticks movement was very short, something like 4-5 inches measured from handle so in halfway of the stick it would be something like 2 inches.
I wouldn't say pilot would be unable to push the stick.

Edit:
From Bf109.com:
"The designer has also penalized himself by the unusually small stick-top travel of four inches, giving a poor mechanical advantage between pilot and aileron."

From same source: Lenghts of the MG151 and MK103:
MG151/15: 193cm
MG151/20: 177cm
MK103: 235cm

And continues:
"Bf 109K-10 Represented a simple change in armament from the K-4, being fitted with a pair of fuselage-mounted MG 131 machine-guns and a nose-mounted MK 103M cannon. Also allowed for the R5 modification. There is considerable doubt whether a K-10 ever flew."

So what is that "M" letter after the cannon type ?

Staga · « **Reply #22 on:** October 01, 2002, 05:54:38 AM »

Pics from Finnish AF's Bf109G-6 cockpit:

http://hkkk.fi/~yrjola/photo/planes/bf109/cockpit.html

And another nice pic: http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/photoreports/blenheim2001/mt018.jpg

Wilbus · « **Reply #23 on:** October 01, 2002, 06:02:49 AM »

Staga, believe the M after Mk 103 stands for Minengeschoss indicating that it carried Minengeschoss rounds shells only, no armor piercing.

Vermillion · « **Reply #24 on:** October 01, 2002, 06:49:16 AM »

From the information that I've seen over the years, and all the information presented in these discussions, the last production K model was the K4.

A few prototypes of the K6 (a few as in 2 or 3) were built, and anything after that was drawings and dreams.

Wilbus · « **Reply #25 on:** October 01, 2002, 07:28:26 AM »

Two K14 saw action Verm.

Wether this can be considerd to be production or not can be discussed though.

Vermillion · « **Reply #26 on:** October 01, 2002, 09:43:37 AM »

Not that I'm too picky

But I do have to laugh at situations like this.

It was the hard core Luftwaffe community that scream, yelled, gnashed their teeth, rent their clothing, and wailed like professional mourners, about the F4U-1C (200 aircraft) and the N1K2 (450 aircraft?). And how stupid it was to include them in the game because they were unrepresentative and therefore shouldn't have been modeled.

So then along came the Ta152H ( only 2 or 3 H1's) at 43 total aircraft, and now we get into discussions like this about 2 or 3 aircraft of odd varients of whichever 109 or 190 is the current object of lust

Just pointing out the irony, not trying to rag on anyone in particular.

Realistically, and back to the point. IMO if it didn't serve in squadron level service it wasn't a production plane, it was a prototype, or maybe "pre-production" if you prefer that term.

Wilbus · « **Reply #27 on:** October 01, 2002, 10:13:52 AM »

I've never complained about the F4u 1C or the niki saying they shouldn't be in the game due to numbers. I mean NEVER EVER. I have said multiple times I wanted the F4u 1C perked and some time the Niki aswell. The niki after being fixed is, although it's chopper like, not worth perking.

The K14, saw combat, I haven't requested it to be added have I? Just said it saw combat. I'm not very interestead in it.

The Ta152 is definatly a plane worth adding, now if they could only fix it with the GM1 so it gets the 35k+ performance it should have I'd be very happy.

Pongo · « **Reply #28 on:** October 01, 2002, 10:35:01 AM »

Verm
we are discussing whether the beasty existed. not whether is should be in the game. No agenda here. Just plane fans talking.
Look at stagas picture of the G6 cockpit. that is certainly the breach enclosure arround a mg151/20. a very compact weapon compared to almost any 20mm in existance at the time. Now look at that picture of the 103 slung under a wing. Where is that going to go? not in the little box that holds the 151/20, or a mk108.
If this was ever tried it was only to show that it was not practical. Its not the length of the barrel cause there is lots of blast tube length in the engine. Its the size of the breach. Mayby they had a differnt 103 that was more lightly built and only stressed for mine rounds not AP rounds. maybe that is possible But then we have to look at the ballistics of the gun and know it wont have the hispano like ballistics of the 103 we all read about.
What is a K14?

Wilbus · « **Reply #29 on:** October 01, 2002, 10:46:50 AM »

What does the P80 have to do with this? I haven't said the K14 should be in the game, I don't think it should and I DEFINATLY don't think the P80 should.