Author Topic: Christians, doesn't it annoy you... (Read 3747 times)

Apache · « **Reply #120 on:** January 06, 2003, 01:06:44 PM »

Some of you are having a difficult time at grasping the depth of Gods love it seems.

Our freewill goes so far in that, not only does God know we will make wrong choices, he loves us enough not to stop us.

When all is said and done, God will be surrounded with those that chose to be with him.

Thats freewill.

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #121 on:** January 06, 2003, 01:10:16 PM »

Freewill also allows you to apparently commit some of the worst sins, yet if you ask for God's forgiveness... he will forgive you... and all is good, and you will be seated next to him in heaven.

You guys are gonna be surrounded by rapists, murderers, and various other prison inmates for eternity.

That's heaven?
-SW

vorticon · « **Reply #122 on:** January 06, 2003, 01:11:12 PM »

doesnt annoy me one bit...makes me mad as a hornet tho...lol

28sweep · « **Reply #123 on:** January 06, 2003, 01:39:32 PM »

Jesus will team up with the Marine Corps somday and kick as$'s of the non-believers..........

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #124 on:** January 06, 2003, 01:41:32 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by 28sweep
Jesus will team up with the Marine Corps somday and kick as$'s of the non-believers..........

Yeah right, and Teletubbies aren't queer.
-SW

Kieran · « **Reply #125 on:** January 06, 2003, 01:55:16 PM »

Actually it doesn't bother me at all, AKS. Sin is sin in God's eyes. If the sin is washed away, what was done on earth isn't going to matter a bit. If a person experiences true repentance and God forgives him/her, I have no place in judging them.

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #126 on:** January 06, 2003, 02:08:43 PM »

You lived the good life... they led a life that took several other's lives, raped other's lives, and/or stole from other's lives.

But somehow you both "earned" your places in heaven next to God...

Out of all the anguish and problems the latter life caused, that life still gets the same benefits you do for living according to God's plan.... and you both still get to heaven?

The benefit for believing in this God seems about as great as an eternity of being with the absolute worst of the worst kind of people... and in a way, that's what you end up with.

I'm not trying to insult... but it just seems this way to me.
-SW

Kieran · « **Reply #127 on:** January 06, 2003, 02:18:44 PM »

It goes back to the concept that you are no better than anyone else in God's eyes. You either choose to be with Him or you don't.

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #128 on:** January 06, 2003, 02:19:51 PM »

Fair enuff.
-SW

mrfish · « **Reply #129 on:** January 06, 2003, 02:20:23 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kieran
I totally 100% understand what Mr.Fish (and you) are saying, really, I do.

What I cannot make clear is the concept knowing what will happen is not the same as making something happen.

God said "This will come to pass". From our perspective we can look at it like "God is going to make this happen". Not true. God has seen what will happen and is telling us.

if you create a toy and know absolutely that if you turn it on it will walk out of your workshop and destroy a grocery store then do you have no liability?

what if you magically infuse it with the freewill to either destroy or spare the grocery store, even though you still know absolutely ahead of time which it will pick.

further, what if, before you enable it to leave you give it your opinion on the way that freewill would be used, knowing all the while he was still going to go out and destroy or spare the store?

do you think you'd have any liability? what if shop owner came back to you with a smoldering awning in one hand and a picture of your toy in the other- would you tell him, "well i gave him choice, it's his fault. of course i knew he'd destroy your awning before i turned him on and set him out the door but he made the choice. i gave him the freewill thing so he'd pick the right choice"

god designed this world? i get stuck on why a god would enjoy all this drama- why the best use of their power and eternal nature would be to create a little rock where people have the duty to figure out how to live right when you already know how the game will turn out. you'd think they'd be a bit more sophisticated than that.

StSanta · « **Reply #130 on:** January 06, 2003, 02:29:35 PM »

Haeh, you're either with him or against him.

A righteous man who all his life has worked to save others, who've gone through terrible hardships to assist and ultimately paid the highest price for it goes to hell.

A child molester and serial killer repents on his death bed and goes to heaven.

It's not the kind of justice as I subscribe to.

mrfish · « **Reply #131 on:** January 06, 2003, 02:34:25 PM »

me either santa- along that line:

say someone kills a person every day of their adult life and is as evil as possible starting at age 20 and he dies at age 60.

if i had to sentence the guy, i'd have to take into account that he only existed for 60 years, that i created him and that i knew without a doubt he'd do it.

maybe 80 years to pay for 40 years of evil- or if we was really rotten maybe 1000 years of hell - but eternity? even i couldn't be that dastardly. but god would? i couldn't think of anyone no matter how bad that deserves that- we're only humans, some punishment is in order but eternity...

Kieran · « **Reply #132 on:** January 06, 2003, 02:56:26 PM »

Mr.Fish

Perhaps in the grand scheme of things the grocery store is unimportant?

Perhaps God allowing a way back to Him is what the plan is from the beginning?

Perhaps God is making man understand that no man is anything more than the man next to him?

Perhaps God is making man understand he cannot make himself righteous?

The viewpoint you and Santa seem to share on many of these issues is "Why is it people that are generally good get excluded from God's heaven?". These good people refuse to acknowledge God as Savior. Without that acknowledgement, their sin cannot be forgiven. Without forgiveness, they cannot enter heaven.

It isn't up to me to decide who deserves heaven and who doesn't; and in fact, this very case you outlined is a good example of why people should not get too complacent in their salvation.

AKIron · « **Reply #133 on:** January 06, 2003, 03:13:41 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by mrfish
me either santa- along that line:

say someone kills a person every day of their adult life and is as evil as possible starting at age 20 and he dies at age 60.

if i had to sentence the guy, i'd have to take into account that he only existed for 60 years, that i created him and that i knew without a doubt he'd do it.

maybe 80 years to pay for 40 years of evil- or if we was really rotten maybe 1000 years of hell - but eternity? even i couldn't be that dastardly. but god would? i couldn't think of anyone no matter how bad that deserves that- we're only humans, some punishment is in order but eternity...

Not all Christians agree as to what exactly hell is or who belongs there. I'm pretty glad that no one here decides who winds up there. Consider though that it may not be so much of a punsihment as a choice. Don't love God then you won't want to be with him, right?

What if hell is nothing more than the physical universe sucked into a giant black hole at the end of time?

mrfish · « **Reply #134 on:** January 06, 2003, 03:31:46 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kieran
Mr.Fish

Perhaps in the grand scheme of things the grocery store is unimportant?

tell that to the store owner- or the doomed toy that gets tortured forever because he couldn't correct his maker's flaw fast enough.

we don't have anything to do with god's plan, he knew the outcome of his plan before any of us were in existence. why would he 'need' us for anything?

i wouldn't want to hang out with god at the after-show party anyway. i can't imagine sitting there sipping hot toddies while he walks around with a turtleneck recapping some of his more clever acheivements- all kinds of chicks from alabama with 8.5 lbs of makeup and that alert look hanging on his arm. yek

all the while there'd be all these good people whose only sin was not falling down on their faces and begging god to forgive their trivial sins burning for eternity somewhere.

i could never get that out of my mind or enjoy my afterlife knowing that such a total miscarriage of justice went down. i sure wouldn't want to hang with the entity that couldn't make a better plan than that and seems pretty stuck on himself to boot.

oh well-