Author Topic: Christians, doesn't it annoy you... (Read 3737 times)

StSanta · « **on:** December 29, 2002, 09:26:12 AM »

You've had a rough break. You've had an accident that have left you without your left foot and ruined a possible career in sports.

You work extremely hard and manage to find success in another field. You study, train and generally dedicate yourself to your goal.

Only to hear:

"The Lord gave him abilities in other fields. Thank Jesus for that".

I mean, it'd been YOU who overcame hardship. Getting the strenght to do so isn't exclusive to religious people - there are numerous examples of non theists doing the same. So you've had hardship and endured, and now the credit goes to your Lord?

I know, I know. Pride cometh before fall. I just don't think it's pride to want to not have credit given to someone who didn't actually do the hard work.

I see such statements often when Christians comment on someone who's made a comeback of sorts - always thanks to the Lord. I'd say the individual did it. Assuming there is a God and he created that individual, that individual does till have *free will*, which he or she used to change his/her life. God might say 'jolly good ol' sport, that's the spirit laddie' but to actually attribute his/her work to God, isn't that sort of...of...wrong?

Guess it's about meekness and 'you're just a poor sinner'. We have the Jante law here that says 'don't think you're anything. Don't think you're better than others...' etc. I'm fed up with it.

This is one aspect of Christianity I've never quite understood.

Daff · « **Reply #1 on:** December 29, 2002, 09:58:27 AM »

"We have the Jante law here that says 'don't think you're anything. Don't think you're better than others...' etc. I'm fed up with it."

That's one aspect of Denmark I really hated. It works both ways though..either you're not supposed to think you are anything or the moment you have a tiny amount of success, you move to Hellerup and start speaking with a posh accent.
Yuck.

Daff

beet1e · « **Reply #2 on:** December 29, 2002, 10:26:35 AM »

StSanta

I understand entirely your difficulty in this. I too have noticed how, in the field of Christianity, that when things are going badly it’s all the fault of Man, and the result of our collective “sins”. Then, when something good happens, it’s “All Glory to God”.

As the product of a Christian family, for years I had to wrestle with the conundrum of ”If there was a God, how could he allow this war/poverty/famine/disease (delete as appropriate) to happen?” It did not make sense. Then I took a step back and contemplated that if we assume for one moment that there is no God, then everything that happens around us makes perfect sense.

I made my own decisions more than 30 years ago, and I have to tell you it was like getting a huge rock off my chest, and throwing it out of the window. (There was no string attached to the rock, and no sign reading rock tied to left bollock.)

And I have never looked back.

Santa, try to accept the beliefs of those around you, even if they do not concur with your own. Free yourself from having to worry about why things are the way they are, as depicted in your original post. Not everyone has the mindset to cope with or benefit from religion. I don’t, and you don’t. Accept it, free yourself, and move on.

Innominate · « **Reply #3 on:** December 29, 2002, 10:41:50 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by beet1e
Then I took a step back and contemplated that if we assume for one moment that there is no God, then everything that happens around us makes perfect sense.

Though it also makes sense if god is either a sadist, incompetent, or maybe both.

lazs2 · « **Reply #4 on:** December 29, 2002, 11:07:11 AM »

first off.... I am not a christian. next.... I have the oppossite opinion that you do santa.... I have overcome several hardships that would make losing a foot seem fairly tame... I am highly amused when people tell me how "proud" they are of me for overcoming these things.... I do not in the slightest believe that I could have done so on my own.

I don't believe that anyone who has overcome major problems remains egotistical enough to rule out the spiritual.... least not in my experiance. I think you will find that most agree with me and that they found some sort of soiritual help. I am not the least offended when someone recognizes that I needed gods help... I am more embarassed when I am given more credit than I am due.
lazs

lord dolf vader · « **Reply #5 on:** December 29, 2002, 11:54:36 AM »

you dont like Christianity now? come live in the bible belt, see what its like when they have power. place is the scariest i have ever lived in. From what i can see there is no way to be a really balanced person if you follow their dogma. no intrest in it myself.

Soviet · « **Reply #6 on:** December 29, 2002, 12:12:12 PM »

BlckMgk · « **Reply #7 on:** December 29, 2002, 12:40:10 PM »

Quote

beet1e wrote:

As the product of a Christian family, for years I had to wrestle with the conundrum of ”If there was a God, how could he allow this war/poverty/famine/disease (delete as appropriate) to happen?” It did not make sense. Then I took a step back and contemplated that if we assume for one moment that there is no God, then everything that happens around us makes perfect sense.

Well first thing I'd like to say is everyone belives what we need to, to survive or do what we do everyday. I try my hardest to not pass judgement, because its not mine to give.

I'm a believer that everything happens for a reason.

First off the definition of "God" , which I accept, is a higher being than anything that we can comprehend. If we can define a God then it surpasses that because being human we are unable to comprehend him, due to the fact we are fallible.

To assume that God needs to come down and "Fix" whats going on in the world today, with the disease etc. would mean that God was wrong in the first place to allow this to happen. If God is wrong, that would give him a "human" characteristicts, which would then mean he doesn't exist, because for me God can't be wrong or contradict himself, due to the idea he is above human limitations. There is a reason for why this happens even though Me or You may not understand or may not like whats going on, its happening and we have to deal with it. We are only given tasks we can handle.

So this is the reason those, I feel who go through harsh times thank god, because they know that the task was given to them for a reason, and after the task is complete they now hold them selves at such a higher standard than they previously did. Thus since they were rewarded with such a difficult task they thus thank God for the new enlightenment they have just experienced.

-BlckMgk

Kieran · « **Reply #8 on:** December 29, 2002, 12:53:45 PM »

St.Santa-

You are supposed to praise God in good times and bad times alike. You know God is the giver of all. You know God gives you no burden you cannot overcome with faith. You were raised in the church, you know this.

I tell you what I will never understand... it's people who are supposedly offended by people wanting to discuss religion starting conversation after conversation about religion, then blaming it on the religious.

ra · « **Reply #9 on:** December 29, 2002, 01:06:41 PM »

What has atheism contributed to the human race, other than communism?

Thud · « **Reply #10 on:** December 29, 2002, 01:25:06 PM »

Atheism lead to communism? Perhaps you could explain that, probably will produce a few good laughs for us all...

Soviet · « **Reply #11 on:** December 29, 2002, 01:36:11 PM »

Atheism was what Russian Communists believed in. They believed that religion was just something to make oppressed peasants believe they had something better to look foward to after their hard life.

I am a Socialist but have been a follower of the Roman Catholic church for all my life and will never give up my faith.

I remember when I was a kid and my aunt had a daughter that died at the age of 2. I asked my mom "why would god take the life of someone so early?" my mother replied "I can't really answer that question except that it was god's will. There are things we may never know until we are dead, she is in a better place now."

The reason there's a lot of speculation these days is because of how much of an impact modern science has on the world. Don't take me wrong, I think science is great and helps us with a lot. The thing is people begin to look at things in black and white with science. When everything seems explainable such as cell division, what atoms are made up of... It becomes easier to reject religion because there is no concrete evidence of god's existance.

hawk220 · « **Reply #12 on:** December 29, 2002, 01:36:15 PM »

well said Santa

why is it so difficult for people to accept that THEY have the control over their lives? something bad happens: 'god has his plan for me/ this must be a test.. then something good happens: god is blessing me. what roadkill. WE are the highest power in OUR lives. weak minds need the opiate of a 'god' to explain the good and the bad.

mrfish · « **Reply #13 on:** December 29, 2002, 01:55:17 PM »

saw my great uncle and aunt over the holidays. they praise god day and night.....

they've both been fighting sickness since the mid 70's. every day is spent in pain and last year they got the opportunity to burry their 50 year old daughter who died of a freak heart attack. she was about the last good thing they had to be happy about.

their god sucks.

BlckMgk · « **Reply #14 on:** December 29, 2002, 02:04:40 PM »

Very well said Hawk. I totally agree with the fact we have should have control over our own lives. Because ultimately we have the choice wether or not to do something, we all have freedom of choice.

What is the difficulty in living to a "believed" higher standard. There is a simple way to live ones life, those basic ideas which state what a "good" person should do. The fact is not many folks, including myself, have been able to live that simple life. It is easy to do wrong, because it seems the only way to survive is by doing so. To just say "I'm right, you're wrong" Is by far the easiest thing to do, why? because it takes no effort in just believing what you wish. Giving yourself a standard and trying to live by it, gives you something to base your actions from, thus you know, atleast you hope you do, that your actions are correct. The idea behind this is.... everyone is right in what they do ..... or you could reverse that and say everyone is wrong.... this includes me and you. But to fear your actions and to not act in what you believe is wrong.

-BlckMgk