Author Topic: Observation: Changes in MA style in the last month or so..  (Read 3008 times)

Offline eskimo2

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Observation: Changes in MA style in the last month or so..
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2003, 10:24:52 AM »
I have no trouble finding good fights; 1:1s, 1:2s, 1:3s, 2:1s, 3:1s, 2:3s, 3:2s, 4:2s, 2:4s, defence, offence, furballs, etc.  I can't always find exactly what I'm looking for, but I can usually find a good fight.

Not sure what the problem is?
Oh wait, I've been flying in the CT for the past year, not the MA.
That's it.
Apples and oranges.

So never mind, the CT sucks, there's typically only 10 to 35 players in at a time, it can't be any fun in there.  I mean, if there's only 5 to 20 players on the other side, a "mob" is like 4 to 6 players, verses 2 to 6 players...
I mean, 5 to 10% as many players means only 5 to 10% as much fun, right?  It's a lot more fun to fight against 30 guys all by yourself, right?
When I look at the MA numbers, I think to myself, "Gee, I could be fighting against 200 players.  I could go the the MA, kill em all, and land a 200 kill sortie! ... ?"  or I could ...
Oh never mind.

eskimo

Offline Toad

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Observation: Changes in MA style in the last month or so..
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2003, 10:56:14 AM »
Yep it's pretty obvious nobody is having any fun in the MA anymore.

Been knocking on 600 the last few times I've played.

Quote
Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded.
  Yogi Berra


Fortunately, there are many choices with even more OTW. New maps coming and a "mission theater" as well. What could be better?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline lazs2

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Observation: Changes in MA style in the last month or so..
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2003, 11:32:25 AM »
eskimo... I noticed you didn't say 12 vs 12 or 20 vs 20.

toad.. I am having fun in the MA but the fun fites are getting harder to find and they are all but nonexistent in the pizza map.   Not so much that there are no good fites as there are less of em and they are dominated by the very fast planes on one end and the spit5 on the other.  
lazs

Offline Toad

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Observation: Changes in MA style in the last month or so..
« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2003, 11:48:31 AM »
That's just 'cuz I haven't been flying much and so you haven't had the chance to shoot me down as often.

And when you mix the entire plane set in one arena, you're always going to have the stratification of player choice. Some will choose the fast B&Zers, some the turners and some the "combo" airplanes. Some will fly each of these to their strengths and some will not. And some... and we all know who these guys are... will kill you no matter what you or they are flying.

I think that's what you will always see unless the planeset is restricted in someway. No, I don't view the Perk System as much of a restriction given the way it is implemented. Restriction would be eliminating some aircraft from the choice list in order to seek some sort of balance as in a TOD, Scenario or even a CT setup.

So, at present I think you're seeing what happens when you put 600 folks into an older, smaller map from the days when 150-200 was a big showing in the MA AND put them in there with a basically unrestricted planeset that goes from the C202 and P-40 types to the La-7's FW-190's and P-51's.

I've always been able to find some fun stuff, even on the Pizza map just by going to a somewhat "low density" area and engaging what's there. Failing that, just position yourself between the two bases involved in a major slugfest. Let the 20 plane raid go on by and then interdict the travel lane the first guys to get shot down must use to return to the fight.

YMMV.

As I've said before, "it's in there"... you may have to look for it a bit though.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline poopster

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Observation: Changes in MA style in the last month or so..
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2003, 12:05:48 PM »
Quote
typically only 10 to 35 players in at a time, it can't be any fun in there


Eskimo I have no doubt that it is fun in there. Everyone is looking for different fun. The CT with it's population is essentially the WB arena. Good fights, no people. For some that is a good thing, cuts down on the rabble, everyone knows everyone else. Fun is had etc.

It lacks the dynamics to get the juices flowing for me. It's why I tired of WB. With a large group even up fight the dynamics are in fast motion, you wear your view hat out, your hair catches on fire, there isn't an instant to relax, it....just rocks. A 15 minute sortie in the fur putting your butt back on the carrier deck is worth 20 sorties elsewhere. You can have 3 nights worth of fun in the span of an hour in the fur.

It's my drug of choice. Just getting a little harder to find. But got a good fix yesterday. That'll hold me over till the next one.

Offline LePaul

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Observation: Changes in MA style in the last month or so..
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2003, 12:24:06 PM »
Hmm, my same ole same ole is this....

Take a lil ole Yak-9 to a place where there is only 3 or 4 other friendlies.  Have a P51 come at me, run away to a gaggle of his friends.  Gee, its not like Im all that fast...

All I want is a great 1-1 fight...but they all run away and grab their mommies for help  ;)

Perhaps its flattering for me, a buff dweeb, to know they need a gaggle of friends to down me? hehe

Yes, heavy use of sarcasm inserted hehe

Offline Toad

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Observation: Changes in MA style in the last month or so..
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2003, 12:34:00 PM »
Disappointed he won't fight your fight?

Maybe you could jump in a D-30 Jug and go looking fer Spit V's to turnfight. They'd probably accomodate you for a 1 v 1.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Mark Luper

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Observation: Changes in MA style in the last month or so..
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2003, 12:55:48 PM »
Yep Toad,

Those are a ton of fun :D
MarkAT

Keep the shiny side up!

Offline eskimo2

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Observation: Changes in MA style in the last month or so..
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2003, 01:10:32 PM »
Lazs,
12:12 in one fight is rare in the CT, it happens, but you can't count on finding it.  It's also a bit harder to tell how many are within range since the icons are shorter.  The shorter icons make it both easier and more difficult.  A quick scan will not show icons on someone who is not an imediate threat, so its kind of a filter.  But the shorter icons also mean that when you get into a tangle with a guy or two, if you don't kill him/them very fast a little black dot can clobber you before you were aware that he was close enough to be a threat.
Anyway, you can count on getting 5 to 10 enemy within icon range of you pretty regularly in the CT, but not always.  Sometimes, but rarely, you can find 15 or more guys working together.  It doesn't really matter though, how many guys can you fight at once?  Seriously?  Unless your hanging out at the edges, looking for a distracted enemy your odds are worse with lesserr numbers.
And yes, some times the fights are even.

Poopster,
"Good fights, no people. "
Now come on, how can there be any kind of fighting, good or bad, with "no people"?
Again I ask the question, How many players do you want to fight at once?  
In the CT there typically is a fight with 10 to 20 or more in one area, and then a few smaller skirmishes in other areas.  Who cares if there are 400+ players elsewhere on the map well beyond your dot range?  When I choose a fight in the CT, I decide, "I can take on this 1 or these 2 guys attacking this base down here, or I can go to the bigger (5 to 10+ enemies) fight over here.

I do think the fights are better in the CT (fr me at least).  They are no more or less intense than what I typically found in the MA.  Some times/nights you've got to fly 10 minutes just to get to the enemy.  But then again, there are some CT maps with bases only 5 miles apart.  When they are owned by opposing countries, well that's the best, most intense fighting I've ever had online.  Much like a CV parked near an enemy base only not so unfair that one side has the perpetual wall of ack.  Those are the fights that I've gotten 40+ kills in an hour (and died my fair share as well).  Literally, I've fought for an hour or more nonstop, with sweat dripping off both my throttle and joystick.

But, IMHO, the best thing about the CT is the historical match-ups.  When I get into a Zero, I am Saburo Sakai.  I want to shoot down big blue US Navy planes.  Now don't get me wrong, fighting a 109 with a zero in the MA can be a lot of fun, but its not immersive.  It just doesn't look right.  I don't feel Japanese.  I play the game to relive history.  I want to forget that I'm just some tard in front of his puter in a nice warm house in 2003.  I want to believe what I am doing is real.
When I fly a hog, I am Pappy Boyington, and I want to kill meatballs (OK, I watched a bit too much Baa Baa Black Sheep when I was a kid.).
When I fly a 109, I am Erich Hartman.  Honestly, as I fight I recall bits of passages from Hartman's book about how he/they fought the russians.  

I love it when I see something and say to myself, "I've read about that!"

... and so on.


eskimo

Offline wetrat

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Observation: Changes in MA style in the last month or so..
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2003, 01:49:22 PM »
I'm not sure if you're right about this.. I can still find a decent fight if I look hard enough. But my style has definitely changed this tour from last; I want my money :). I'm vulching more and flying in safer places, usually with AGJV44. I don't think I've willingly gone into a 1v2 this tour either... but oh well.

Next tour things go back to normal for me :)
Army of Muppets

Offline poopster

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Observation: Changes in MA style in the last month or so..
« Reply #25 on: January 05, 2003, 02:07:13 PM »
Quote
How many players do you want to fight at once?


Honestly 30 a side is a good number. It achieves critical mass and perpetuates itself. People coming in high, people runnin the deck, people meeting in the middle. Icons in all directions.

A good "furball" takes quite a few people. Diagram omits a look from the top, rotation is similar but from the sides in. One of this size can go on better than an hour with fun for sixty plus.

When you find them, there a blast. Can't be done with low numbers. With the hardness of the CV's they don't last too long. Always some "hero" gonna save the day and sink it. I think he's the same guy that kills fighter hangers....

A strange breed that thrives on removing the fights..

Eskimo I did a long stint of historic matchups over the fence. After a time it got old, but again that's just me.

Offline poopster

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Observation: Changes in MA style in the last month or so..
« Reply #26 on: January 05, 2003, 02:15:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by wetrat
I'm vulching more and flying in safer places


Perfect example. Wetrat then the question I have is..

Is it more fun ???

And if so why ??

Offline Vulcan

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Observation: Changes in MA style in the last month or so..
« Reply #27 on: January 05, 2003, 03:48:12 PM »
Strange, I logged onto the MA for the first time in two weeks last night. I've been really pushing WW2OL to see whats under the hood. Anyway, I had no problems finding several 1 on 1's, and the most I ever had was a 3 on 1. I landed an 11 kill run after CV ack tore up my radiator, none of those kills was a vulch.

The MA is what you make of it. Personally I like those big mission field hitters, usually they are so focussed on themselves you can dive in like a lion among antelope and find one who's not looking, zoom up and come back for a another couple.

What DID piss me off is seeing some very dweebish tactics being used (rooks specifically). P-51's, Jugs, and P-38's doing suicide runs on field fuel and ordnance. They seemed to attack a field, and combine with suicide jabo's at nearby fields targeting fuel, barracks, and ord. Thus making surrounding fields ineffective to launch a defense from.

I can't wait til HTC sort out this stupid suicide tactic the hordes are starting to use.

Offline poopster

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Observation: Changes in MA style in the last month or so..
« Reply #28 on: January 05, 2003, 04:20:07 PM »
Choices are what makes the game. I don't want to restrict choice.

If I had wetrat's ability I'd take a shot at the bounty too.

Why has it changed. Granted my style of fun is different from most. I don't have a problem with that.

What has changed to make "playing it safe" the norm ??

That's the question, not a whine. I'll find my "fight". Might take longer and be fewer in number but they're out there.

Something is influencing the change or it wouldn't be happening.

What is that ??

I agree with Vulcan a big improvement would be adding a suicide penalty of some sort. I don't care what people enjoy but the suicide thing is a game breaker. It blows goats.. A solution is needed. On field cap yesterday and 2 Ponies and a Hog came in and did their suicide thing..

I....think...they were trying to contribute..

That needs to be addressed. There's a whole thread on just that topic. I would think there's a solution in the works. We'll see what HT comes up with. They'll cypher it out and come up with a solution.

Offline Kweassa

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Observation: Changes in MA style in the last month or so..
« Reply #29 on: January 05, 2003, 06:15:57 PM »
Perk the 1000 lbs bombs loadout on fighters, which was supposedly relatively rare in real life. If one does not land, you lose the perks.