mp3'ers beware

[SaburoS]

Originally posted by Vulcan
Hey SubaroS, how but this then.

Go down to your local music shop, and try buying CDs from either Pacifier, Tadpole, or Stella*

Lets see how well you do.

I don't know those groups but if I liked their songs, I might try buying them from:

Pacifier

Tadpole

Don't know Stella either. Too many different links with "Stella" in the title.

How long are we going to play the "It's okay because......" game?

[SaburoS]

Originally posted by midnight Target
Come on, it is hardly that black and white. Is taping a song off the radio illegal? How about a movie from HBO? What exactly is "benefitting"? The only difference between a TIVO recording stuff off the air and a computer recording stuff off the internet is method of transmission.

Don't ask my definition of "benefitting."
I think the important issue is how a judge will define "benefitting."

BTW, how many Tivo owners can tap into your Tivo set to get TV shows that you recorded?
How many people can tap into your tape recorder to get songs for free?
While we're at it, how about movies off your VCR?

Saving a song file can imply to a judge that one was benefitting from it. If that person had not paid for that song AND did not have the permission of the owners of that song, that would be theft.
Allowing others access to your computer to download that very copyrighted file (whether you paid for it or not) is infringing on the copyright holder. The exception of course is if the owner of that copyright gives you permission to allow others to make copies of that file.
Buying that music file gives you permission to have that particular song, it does not transfer the copyrights of that song to you.

Copyright infrigement is not legal. Doesn't mean that everyone who infringes on copyrighted materials will be prosecuted (My bet is it will only be a handful of prosecutions, but those will be punished with excessively high fines and jail time to be made examples of), but the law as it stands today, it is wrong.

Who actually owns the song that you downloaded for free?
The copyright owner(s). If they decide to get off their collective arses to start prosecuting, look out.

[Vulcan]

As long as they play the "its ok to rip off consumers" game

SubaruS you seem to ignore the fact theres a huge base of 'artists' out there encouraging the MP3 swapping. One reason is its replaced the old tape swapping meets that used to go and help promote up and coming artists.

Now of course the argument will be well ok swap those that says its ok. But then theres the example of Metallica, who used to the tape swapping culture to get coverage, then when they got to the top they immediately turned on that culture. So there'll always be this blurry line of where being legit stops.

Tell you what, I reckon I've got about $3000 worth of CRAP CD's (you know, one or two good songs and the rest is rubbish). When I feel I've clocked over $3000 worth of MP3s I'll buy some more CD's (and of course if they're crap too then I'll get some more MP3's).

In the meantime, you go sort out the record companies. Isn't a pity they only got stung for $13 per CD they overcharged, instead of say this $500 per mp3 song type figure, heck its a pity the record executives didn't get 'jailtime' too aye. Oh well, I guess the system is fair

[SaburoS]

Originally posted by Vulcan
SubaruS you seem to ignore the fact theres a huge base of 'artists' out there encouraging the MP3 swapping. One reason is its replaced the old tape swapping meets that used to go and help promote up and coming artists.

Sorry, I never said that. Please quote a post of mine that implies that.
Those copyright holders that give their expressed permission for the MP3 file swapping cannot claim copyright infrigement for the swapping (as long as no one is turning around selling bootleg copies of their music).
I thought I have been very clear in my examples and statements but I guess I am wrong.
Tell you what, why don't you quote the statements of mine that you disagree with so I can perhaps make myself more clear for you.

[Eagler]

Bill Would Put Internet Song Swappers in Jail

said the bill had won the backing of many Democrats but Republicans had yet to endorse it.

[SOB]

Good idea!  Our prisons aren't full enough now, and we don't have nearly enough non-violent criminals in them!


SOB

[Montezuma]

Millions of teens are out there downloading Orrin Hatch songs and the poor guy is not even getting a penny from them!  

[Maniac]

As long as i live i will never buy another record in the stores.

Amen.

[BB Gun]

Tahgut:

Can I burn a copy of a CD that I've purchased?
Yes, as long as you do not distribute it.  Copies for personal use are OK AFAIK.

Can I tape a song from the radio?
Yes.  They have broadcast that into your home, you are free to record it. You cannot distribute it.

Can I lend my CD to my neighbor?
Yes.  But he cannot copy it, or any portion of it.

Can my neighbor put the CD onto his computer?
No.  He didn't buy it, so he can't copy it.

Can I put my CD onto my computer?
Personal use copy only.  As long as you don't distribute it.

Can I leave my CD on my front lawn with a sign that reads 'free'?
Yes.  Assuming when you get rid of it, you also destroy any copies you made.

And thats the way I understand things to be.  Anyone who knows better, feel free to correct me.

I don't DL MP3's.  If my kid does, and I find out - he loses his radio, and the speakers on his PC.  Same with copied albums/CDs from his friends.

If you take away the incentive and ability to control your own music by undermining copyright protections, you eliminate most of the incentive to work your bellybutton off to produce that music.

BB  <-- only buys CD's when on sale.  Have not paid more than 10 bucks per disk in ages, but have not DL'd anything, either.

[BB Gun]

PS - ROCK ON saburoS, and nash (you naughty boy, you).

BB

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by SaburoS

That is theft.  

You are a cop...yes?

The you bloody well know that downloading an mp3 from the net to your computer is NOT theft. Period. Nor is it stealing. By definition. Accept this legal tidbit and move on.

It *might* be some other type of crime, but it is not theft, and it is not stealing.

[Maniac]

Wow, im starting to like Hortlund!!!

[Vulcan]

Originally posted by SOB
Good idea!  Our prisons aren't full enough now, and we don't have nearly enough non-violent criminals in them!


SOB

Yup, I bet M$ is watching this with glee and drooling over a monopoly being propped up by legislation (so much for 'market forces').

Oh well life goes on (strokes his newly acquired DVD burner)

[SaburoS]

Originally posted by Hortlund
You are a cop...yes?

The you bloody well know that downloading an mp3 from the net to your computer is NOT theft. Period. Nor is it stealing. By definition. Accept this legal tidbit and move on.

It *might* be some other type of crime, but it is not theft, and it is not stealing.

So downloading and benefitting from someone else's copyrighted materials without their permission is not theft?
BTW, are you saying that we have a right to devalue other's copyrighted materials to free without their permission is okay?

Copyright Theft
Your rights as a copyright holder

So if I get a bootleg copy of Photoshop (downloaded file, or cd copy) while have never paid for the program (license), and without the permission of Adobe, and I use that product, benefit from it, is that not a form stealing? Not a form of theft?

What is it then?
What exactly is copyright infringment?

Does our definition really matter, or do you just like splitting hairs?
Bottom line: If caught and convicted under present copyright laws, one will have to pay.

LOL, for those that wish to, keep downloading to your heart's content. Just don't whine and cry if you get caught.

Oh BTW Hortlund, I'm not a cop. If I were it would not be my job to determine if someone was violating copyright laws. That job goes to the judge residing over that case.

[SaburoS]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by SaburoS

That is theft.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by Hortlund
You are a cop...yes?

The you bloody well know that downloading an mp3 from the net to your computer is NOT theft. Period. Nor is it stealing. By definition. Accept this legal tidbit and move on.

It *might* be some other type of crime, but it is not theft, and it is not stealing.

Hortlund, you care to actually read my posts?
You actually care to post my example before the "That is theft."?

I was very specific (or so I thought) in my examples of what constituted _______ <--- (fill in the blank w/theft, stealing, copyright infringement, etc.).

You may have studied law, but obviously not copyright laws.