Author Topic: mp3'ers beware (Read 4507 times)

Nash · « **Reply #90 on:** June 27, 2003, 07:50:21 AM »

Well said SuburoS!

SaburoS · « **Reply #91 on:** June 27, 2003, 07:52:11 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Fishu
SaburoS is funny.. hes speaking like downloading pirated mp3 is like stealing a car.

Now lets see.. mr. A downloads mp3 and mr. B steals gas from a gas station.

- After Mr.A has downloaded the mp3, there'll be another mp3 to be downloaded by someone else, or by Mr.A himself, if he chooses to later download it again for some reason.

- After Mr.B has ran away with stolen gas, the gas station will book direct losses, since the stolen gas cannot be stolen by someone else anymore - or sold by the gas station.
It's permanently lost. (unless someone catches the guy and returns the gas before its used of course)

Oh and.. Suburos.. it's really a 'copyright'.

What's funny is your trying to justify theft of copyrighted (just for you Mr. Spelling Nazi - btw check your own post) materials because it just happens to be there.

If people normally used to buy the music they liked, but stopped because they got pirated copies that was easily available, then it is okay by you? You think the artists that created the music others enjoy wouldn't show losses that would otherwise be there if not for the ease of downloading pirated music? So no costs were involved in the making of that music? The musicians work for free?
Let's say that it was legal to download, use, and/or own copyrighted materials. Let's say no one actually purchased the music/programs, etc anymore. LOL, your sources will dry up.
I guess you volunteer at your job and work for free too?
Bottom line is that you want something for nothing.
It is stealing btw. So is using copyrighted software without paying for its license. Taking food from a grocery. Taking gas from a gas station.
Just different degrees of theft, but theft nontheless.

Maniac · « **Reply #92 on:** June 27, 2003, 07:58:03 AM »

Well the main thing is that they never will be able to stop it... Thats technology for you...

They djust have to accept MP3´s and move along to bigger better things...

muckmaw · « **Reply #93 on:** June 27, 2003, 08:23:06 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by SaburoS
.....leads me to a question (if you all have the courage to answer honestly):

How many have and are using pirated software such as Adobe's Photoshop?
Any other pirated applications/games, etc?

Anyone here NOT have pirated music or software?

Pirated software on my computer....0

I did not know you could D/L software like you can music.

But now that I do.....

Pirating music has been going on since the Double Deck 8 track. The only thing the internet did was make it much more widespread and easier.

Is it still theft? Of course. Is what the Recoding industry been doing all these years gouging? Price Fixing? Yes.

I don't plan on downloading any more music, which the simple threat of suit was designed for. It's a scare tactic.

But they've alienated me as a consumer. I won't be buying CD's. And I did buy the CD's to groups I really liked after downloading the songs to listen.

So congrats to the RIAA. You've alienated another paying customer.

Fishu · « **Reply #94 on:** June 27, 2003, 11:29:23 AM »

SaburoS,

You won't see me misspelling words like copyright, trademark...

With the sentences, I do have a perfectly good excuse.

What I know about my pirating friends, they do buy the good ones as long as they have the money for it.

Bad music = you wouldn't buy it anyway.
adequate, but expensive music = perhaps you already bought the good ones, no money for these anymore.
good music = you would buy it as long as you can afford.

So in my opinion the publishers are exagerating the losses caused by piratism, so they would get the goverments attention to suit their business.

Good thing I've never caught up with music so much.. it distracts me.. so I don't have a bunch of CD's and pirated MP3's laying around. (1 cd from around year 1992-1994 and a bunch of completely legal MP3's.. thats my history with the music in the past 10 years)

However, lets assume I would be an average music listener...
With the current prices, I couldn't really afford to buy a single CD per month.
So I would be downloading music in MP3's and buying a CD sometimes when it's affordable.

What exactly would the music publishers loose with the music I would have downloaded off the net?
I mean.. I couldn't have bought the songs in any case.
However the publishers would immediatly sum up a # percent of the pirated songs value to the losses by piratism.

the music CD's seems to mostly cost around 18-22€ over here, with a brief look at the prices.

vorticon · « **Reply #95 on:** June 27, 2003, 11:51:04 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by SaburoS
.....leads me to a question (if you all have the courage to answer honestly):

How many have and are using pirated software such as Adobe's Photoshop?
Any other pirated applications/games, etc?

Anyone here NOT have pirated music or software?

i dont have any true pirated games or applications on my computer...i have a few abandonware games from the 80's and thats about as illegal it gets (other than the music)

whats really funny is that they didnt care when everyone was buying copys of tapes that someone made...

theft is theft true...but im not the one stealing it its the rippers that are...im simply taking a freely available resource...and as long as im not taking any music from any currently existing (or even alive in some cases) artist im basicly doing abandonware music downloading...

quite a bit of my music i already have on a legally bvought cd...i just downloaded it in mp3 so i wouldent have to run a gauntlet once ive heard the 1 really good song...

i for one dont give a **** whaty happens to current artists anyway...if there really good people will still buy there cds...as far as im concerned the golden age of music died in 1980

Eagler · « **Reply #96 on:** June 27, 2003, 02:59:52 PM »

If I've purchased an album/cd/song at sometime in my life, shouldn't I be able to have a mp3 of it at no addition charge? I mean, I've already paid for the music once, right?

The argument that d/l is taking food outa starving musicians mouths is retarded. Any song I've ever download has already made the band/record company millions.

JB73 · « **Reply #97 on:** June 27, 2003, 05:49:57 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Eagler
If I've purchased an album/cd/song at sometime in my life, shouldn't I be able to have a mp3 of it at no addition charge? I mean, I've already paid for the music once, right?

The argument that d/l is taking food outa starving musicians mouths is retarded. Any song I've ever download has already made the band/record company millions.

soooo true.

id say at LEAST 80% of my mp3's i own on cassette tape or album. just because the tape has worn out i should have to PAY for another copy?? (i have done that before mp3's and CD 's came out... pearl jam's 10 album i bought 3X on cassette LOL)

Vulcan · « **Reply #98 on:** June 27, 2003, 06:47:37 PM »

SaburoS I really don't have much sympathy for most of the artists either. The record companies represent them, and as such the artists are condoning their actions.

Unfortunately I don't have the power to bring legislation against record companies, or the massive legal finances to get them to sort their illegal activities out.

So I fight back the only way I can.

When I see a CD thats good value I buy it.

When I see a scam trying to force me to pay exorbitant prices for extra crap I don't value... well, you figure the rest out.

SaburoS · « **Reply #99 on:** June 28, 2003, 06:15:23 AM »

Another example:

Say there was a software key downloading/sharing service that allowed people to keep playing online games for free. Those people downloading the free "keys" could play any online game they wanted. They'd be able to allow others to share free keys as they became available. Keep in mind the people have no intention of actually paying for the games/service/subscription. They'll use excuses such as:
1) "Well, it really isn't the best game/sim out there so I refuse to support an inferior product. I only like 10 percent of the game/sim because the only good thing is its flight model. Its graphics and damage model isn't what it really should be. There isn't enough of a selection of weapons/vehicles, etc."
2) "$XX.XX is a ripoff to pay per month! I refuse to pay until they drop their subscription rates!"
3) "It's not like they're actually losing any money here. So what if I play for free? There are plenty of people supporting the game anyway. LOL how funny that someone would equate it as stealing! How retarded is that!"

I'm not talking about the free H2H or free 1-4 week trials, I am talking about the unauthorized use of a product, the benefitting of a product without ever paying for it. That my friends is theft. Cut it, slice it, dice it anyway you wish, it's still theft.
You want the benefit of having the music without paying for it. PERIOD.

Want to get back at the evil record companies and their corrupt policies? Then don't buy the music and to show your true convictions, don't download it for free either! Walk the talk.

For those of you that have paid for all of the songs you've downloaded and kept (either on your HD or disc) and you haven't allowed others to make free copies of that same music, my posts in this thread do not apply to you.

*****************

Some empty seats are available on the next flight so the airline should let you fly for free because:
They weren't going to sell those seats anyway? You don't feel the airline is that good anyway. You refuse to pad the pockets of some rich airline corporation because the pilots/flight attendants/mechanics hardly get a decent salary?

Some seats are available for the next movie but you should be able to see it for free because:
They weren't going to sell those seats anyway. You heard the movie wasn't worth the price of admission so you feel you shouldn't have to pay for the movie. But if they lowered the price of admission by 15% since you usually only like 15% of any movie you see, you should be able to go in for free (provided empty seats are available) because you don't want to help a corrupt industry. The price fixing of movies is such a crime.

******************

Someone offers you stolen property for free. You accept it and think it's okay because you actually didn't steal it. You would of paid for it as you really like it, but unfortunetly they bundle that product in the stores with 90% other stuff that you really don't want. The price is just too high for your budget. You don't like the corporations behind the product anyway. Oh BTW, since you got it for free, you am going to let it be avavailable to anyone that wants it also for free (strangers and friends alike).

******************

BTW, even though you may have paid previously (or will pay) for 80% of the songs you've downloaded (good for you on that part), but for the 20% of the songs you've downloaded (benefitted from/enjoyed) and kept (not good) is still considered theft.

Any further comments or questions, or do some of you finally GET it?

Fishu · « **Reply #100 on:** June 28, 2003, 07:38:31 AM »

SaburoS,

Again a bit other kind of example than we're talking about..

If you dont pay monthly fee in a game, it means you're using the companys bandwidth to play the game - and the bandwidth again isn't exactly free for the company.

So there you're causing direct loss for the company.

Again, theres no good example on MP3's here, since when downloading mp3, you dont do any direct loss for the company, especially if you cant even buy the product.

Airline example is funny and hardly an example at all :>
Movies example is not as funny... (and hardly an example in this situation either)
Again we're talking about direct loss for the company... in both examples.

Now your examples are begining to totally loose the grip with the reality of this issue

SaburoS · « **Reply #101 on:** June 28, 2003, 01:43:23 PM »

Fishu,
Think outside the box. Re-read my posts. You'll see the results are the same.
Using/owning a product without the expressed permission of the true owners (in this case the copyrighted owners of the music) without paying for it is theft.

It's funny that you correct me on the spelling of COPYRIGHT yet you don't understand what a copyright means. Does Copyright infringement equal theft?

Let's cut to the chase and be specific here. You find a song that you happen to like (for the moment). You intend on getting that song for free so you can enjoy that song for the near (and possibly distant future). You make a bootleg copy from a friend's (or aquaintance's) copy (doesn't really matter whether they paid for it or not). You get that copy for free. You proceed to listen to that song and are now enjoying it. Benfitting from the musician's effort and work that went into that song but YOU didn't pay for it.

That is theft. What's really funny are the lame excuses trying to justify that theft. I didn't make up the copyright laws nor its definition. Too bad you don't understand it. Ignorance is bliss, eh?

SaburoS · « **Reply #102 on:** June 28, 2003, 01:58:16 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Fishu
SaburoS,

Again a bit other kind of example than we're talking about..

If you dont pay monthly fee in a game, it means you're using the companys bandwidth to play the game - and the bandwidth again isn't exactly free for the company.

So there you're causing direct loss for the company.

Again, theres no good example on MP3's here, since when downloading mp3, you dont do any direct loss for the company, especially if you cant even buy the product.

Airline example is funny and hardly an example at all :>
Movies example is not as funny... (and hardly an example in this situation either)
Again we're talking about direct loss for the company... in both examples.

Now your examples are begining to totally loose the grip with the reality of this issue

1) So the recording artist and record companies make music and produce it for free? No costs involved in getting that music out?

2) Movie situation the same. If the movie theater has extra seat available and no one is willing to buy them for the next showing, they should allow you to see it for free? After all, it won't cost them anything since those seats happen to be empty. After all, it won't cost the movie theater any actual losses since that seat was empty, right?

3) Airline example. You have one small carry-on luggage. Since the airline happens to have some empty seats on the next flight, they should let you go for free? After all, it won't cost the airline any real losses to let you take an empty seat, right?

Oh, I've got a total grip on the issues at hand. Unfortunetly it is you that doesn't.

Go ahead and see the definition of Copyright and Copyright infringment. Maybe, just maybe you'll finally get it. Maybe not.

Nash · « **Reply #103 on:** June 28, 2003, 03:54:23 PM »

Just to be clear Fishu, Vulcan etc., .... all excuses and rationales for it aside.... are you saying that downloading MP3's is not theft?

Fishu · « **Reply #104 on:** June 28, 2003, 05:38:42 PM »

Nash,

Just laughing at these examples, which are each comparing it to something like stealing a car from someone - while the owner has just one car and if that gets lost, he gets severe losses in that - while if someone downloads mp3, theres no unique loss for the owner and not necessarily any kind of loss.

Most people would have definately no use for the computer without this kind of pirating and with the software, there would be even less knowledgeable people around.

Does anyone realise how much it would cost to have just a small amount of MP3's of sold music?
Who actually can afford to fill up his MP3 player with bought music and say he doesn't have to repeat it up to boredom for weeks till next batch?
CD prices are pretty high for most people to do that.
(if they can even afford MP3 player in first place)

Then we get to the software...

How many people for example can afford 3D modelling program just to learn its usage so they can actually do something worth a money?
plus all the associated programs needed to make the 3d models.
Most of the 3d artists I know, have began with pirated 3D modelling software and most of the other necessary software, until they got a job of it.
Wonder if that would be their work nowadays without this?

Can't find such reasons for music, unless its going to inspirate someone to become a music artist

but that doesnt really concern me as I do hardly listen to music.

Anyway.. theres quite alot of things into piratism.
Yes it isn't legal... but neither is it like stealing a car.

I wonder how many times pirated MP3 has actually sold a CD.
At least I've bought a few games that I've downloaded first..
well, theres no real big wonder there.. most games just tends to be published in finland 2-8 weeks after been published in US.. so such impatient people like I, will download the game and play it until gets to buy it :>
Lots of games doesn't even have demos and those which are, are usually based on older version of the game and hardly gives good idea of the game all times (besides being heavily annoying if can't get the bloody game the next day!)

Honestly, I don't think curing music piratism would help anything whats being complained about, just make things worse im afraid.
It's too impossible for me to think of people buying all those mountains of CD's, which of they wanted just 1-4 songs tops OR listen to no music at all or keep replaying their handful of CD's over till the days end..

SaburoS makes it sound like hes some wealthy guy who thinks everyone can buy music or their thieves.
sounds exactly like it.