Author Topic: Why Germany is not supporting the US policy on Iraq. (Read 1589 times)

fffreeze220 · « **Reply #30 on:** February 04, 2003, 10:53:59 AM »

GScholz it was a bit to personal aginst Wabbit. That isnt good.
But its pissing me of like hell and driving me nuts.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #31 on:** February 04, 2003, 10:56:23 AM »

"exactly what should we be grateful for with regard to the Cold War AKIron?"

"World communism was supposed to come from the people in the form of revolutions, like on Cuba. Not by invasion."

"Yeah, thanks a lot AKIron. Thanks for scaring the toejam out of my parent and grandparents with the threat of nuclear holocaust."

You are being an ungreatful little salamander Gscholz , and yes take that seriously.

Now the Euro's are actually complaining that the USA defended them from the massive Soviet stalinist armies for 50 years while they happily rebuilt their comfortable socialist euro-intellectual social and economic structures after WW2 - a war they only managed to survive as a free people because hey USA saved them... And now you say theese things...

salamanders. Ungreatful little piece of toejam salamanders.

fffreeze220 · « **Reply #32 on:** February 04, 2003, 10:56:47 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Angus

Anyway, Habu....are you German? doubt so. You see, Schroder's co-op party are the German GREEN party, and those hold the minister of foreign affairs for instant. They are total pacifists, and this is also their first time in office. Lots of hair and fur in those politics, yeacchhh

These minister for foreign affairs, his name is Joschka Fischer, is 1 of the best polititions we have. And u know why? Because he knows the real life and is no puppet of some 1. The only sad thing about him is that he is a member of the green party so i cant get me to vote for him or his party.

Thud · « **Reply #33 on:** February 04, 2003, 10:58:41 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Habu
And in the US there are countless private charities and NGO's that do much of the work that Norway's government aid would do.

You make a fine argument. When you're confronted with Norway giving relatively more foreign aid you just add all the private organisations from the US which are giving a hand. Of course you'll conveniently oversee the fact that there are such organisations in Norway and any other country as well, but ah well, these don't matter, as long as your country comes out on top in the end....

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #34 on:** February 04, 2003, 11:20:45 AM »

We were never a soviet satelite nation. Tito told Stalin to diddly off in 1948. In fact much of our military equipment was of western origin well into the 1960s - for example F86D and F80 fighters and even tanks. We never joined Warsaw Pact, or NATO. Yougosalavia was one of the leaders of neutral countries in the world. We had just as close ties to the wast as to the east.

Hungary was not invaded?? Checkoslovakia was not invaded? Give me a break - or do you think they were just peace keepers?

BTW it doesnt really matter one bit what "people" want in a communist governemt - you remember all that lack of democracy and human rights and stuff..

Your statements are incredibly uninformed and you should reconsider your resentment of the USA defending europe from the Soviets for 50 years while you guys happily rebuilt your ruined economies and freedoms with US aid money, behind a US defense shield, after a war you only survived as free people because of the USA getting involved.

Dont be ungreatful...

Habu · « **Reply #35 on:** February 04, 2003, 11:22:07 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Thud
You make a fine argument. When you're confronted with Norway giving relatively more foreign aid you just add all the private organisations from the US which are giving a hand. Of course you'll conveniently oversee the fact that there are such organisations in Norway and any other country as well, but ah well, these don't matter, as long as your country comes out on top in the end....

I am not an American. I do not live in America. I just see so much nonsense written about America right now I felt the desire to make these posts. I really do not think that most people have any idea what is going on with the UN and the US and Iraq.

Regarding my post. Yes It is true that the contributions from the US private organizations and NGO's will be much higher than those from Norway both in total dollar terms and in terms of % of GDP. The reason is that Norway is a very heavily taxed socialist country and people in those countries tend to think "My government takes care of my social causes for me".

In the US people are more generous personally and do not expect the government to eliminate hunger in Africa so will support one of the many church or national charities that work in that area.

How much did you donate to charity last income tax statement. I bet I gave more and I am not even that generous a donor.

Monk · « **Reply #36 on:** February 04, 2003, 11:53:35 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by fffreeze220
These minister for foreign affairs, his name is Joschka Fischer, is 1 of the best polititions we have. And u know why? Because he knows the real life and is no puppet of some 1. The only sad thing about him is that he is a member of the green party so i cant get me to vote for him or his party.

The guy is a Freakin Idiot, but Schily takes the cake.

Duedel · « **Reply #37 on:** February 04, 2003, 12:27:13 PM »

U really think only because we dont agree with u we are a peace of toejam?
Do I think only cause u want the germans to support u, all US citizens are fascists?
Only cause we have different oppinions on one subject u guys are blaming germans?
Is this what is called friendship?

Stop whining about the germans and french.

This really makes me sick and shows me the enormous maturity and brainpower u have

Kelly[KGN] · « **Reply #38 on:** February 04, 2003, 01:56:23 PM »

I 2nd that Duedel.

Dowding · « **Reply #39 on:** February 04, 2003, 04:22:54 PM »

Toad - who's talking about using statistics to measure compassion or national intent? Not I. Or is this another red herring? When discussing aid contributions, sometimes its useful to look at the statistics concerning aid contributions. It's a simple as that. Of course there are circumstances that alter the context of those figures - but the US, oft-made claim that it makes most contribution is not the full story.

AKIron - your uncles didn't save me, the same way my grandparents didn't save Straffo or any other modern French guy. To suggest I should tow some party line because 80 years before my birth your distant relatives did something for my distant relatives beggars belief. I guess you must believe in the 'Sins of the Fathers' principle too?

Something resonates deeply from your arguments:

"Black and White" and "With us or against us"

I'm sorry, but it simply is a little more complicated than that.

For the record, I don't think the US is trying to subjugate the world in some evil empire. But I guess because I currently disagree with US policy over Iraq I have to fit that pigeonhole, right?

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #40 on:** February 04, 2003, 04:41:21 PM »

We were not a soviet satelite, we were not a soviet republic, we were not allied to the soviets, we were not in warsaw pact, we took money and aid from everyone west and east to make the communist economy work. We were as much a soviet satelite as were were a US satelite - in as much we bought stuff from them as it suited our needs. We bought planes from usa and russia, AAA guns sweden. So no we were not soviet satelites - you are wrong.

Hungary and czeckoslovakia were not soviet republics, they never were. Neither was east germany - they invaded and imposed an unwanted communist regime by installing puppet rulers and preventing free elections and freedom. When the czecks and hungarians acted to gain more freedom the soviet armies invaded to impose strict communism again. No doubt about it - communism was always brought about by invasions there.

Afghanistan is a bit more complicated but basically they invaded because a series of soviet puppets, Taraki and later Amin failed to do exactly as moscow wanted so the soviet army invaeded and installed Karmal. Again communism imposed by brutal invasion.

Thx for helping the bosnians and the turks.

AKIron · « **Reply #41 on:** February 04, 2003, 05:21:58 PM »

Well Dowding, while you might have defeated Germany and/or the USSR without help from the US in WWII and thereafter I have my doubts. Where would you personally be without that help that my uncles (one still alive) willing provided?

Agreed, the world is not a black and white place. Remember that the next time some European country decides that it knows better how to govern the rest of you guys and the US decides to mind it's own business as would seem to make you happy.

AKIron · « **Reply #42 on:** February 04, 2003, 05:26:39 PM »

"As the world's third-largest oil exporter, Norway can afford to put money into peacemaking and to remain engaged in drawn-out negotiations."

And you really believe that the USSR didn't have a covetous eye on you? GScholz, if your attitude is typical of your countrymen then I'm just sorry we wasted so much time and effort.

Toad · « **Reply #43 on:** February 04, 2003, 06:46:48 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Dowding
Toad - who's talking about using statistics to measure compassion or national intent?.... When discussing aid contributions, sometimes its useful to look at the statistics concerning aid contributions. It's a simple as that. Of course there are circumstances that alter the context of those figures - but the US, oft-made claim that it makes most contribution is not the full story.

Well, what exactly is the point of this stream of "dick-measurement" posts?

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #44 on:** February 04, 2003, 08:06:02 PM »

"The fact that you let the Soviets use your airspace to wage war in Afghanistan shows this quite clearly."

Hmmm??? Do you know where afghanistan is, or yugoslavia for that matter?

Just saying that statement makes no sense geographically...