Author Topic: killshooter (Read 2292 times)

eskimo2 · « **Reply #15 on:** February 14, 2003, 02:01:31 AM »

KS is off in Warbirds!

Man, I guess its time to finally renew my account (after 3 years).

I'm gona go kill me some friendlies and piss everyone off too!

(Don't worry ammo, I'll hold my fire on you though

)

eskimo

AKcurly · « **Reply #16 on:** February 14, 2003, 02:53:21 AM »

I participated in a WW1 sim where the first 10 rounds registered on the target (10 wasn't enough to kill him), but after 10 rounds, it killed the shooter instantly.

I didn't like it that way ... it took 30 something rounds to fatally damage a wing and with 10 rounds in a wing, you were 1/3 of the way there.

We cannot have it so that a friendly can damage a friendly. No way.

If we turn kill shooter off, we'll have friendlies shooting through us to the target. Channel 1 would go ballistic.

I like kill shooter just the way it is.

curly

Kaz · « **Reply #17 on:** February 14, 2003, 06:44:59 AM »

I'm all for just having the lethality reduced in killshooter, that'll help tons in reducing the frustration level in those rare instances where it's not entirely the shooter's fault. It'll also serve as a reminder(for me anyway) to stay away from those types of fights.

IMO those lines of friendlies chasing a con needs to be dealt with. People who KNOW that they have more speed and are in absolutely no danger of getting damaged as they charge out into the lead and more often than not, into the line of fire of the former lead plane(s), still need a reminder. Any suggestions?

hogenbor · « **Reply #18 on:** February 14, 2003, 08:06:02 AM »

Leave KS as it is. If you accidently hit a friendly EVEN if you worked hard for an honest kill and EVEN if he just wants to steal it, just bad luck. I can live with that.

Been flying for half a year now, shot a friendly only once (accidently, I died instantly) but can imagine the amount of abuse I would have caused by killing a friendly unintentionally. Don't want that.

I've seen too many gangbangs, KS is a blessing then, not a hindrance. I fully believe things would get massively out of hand (as can be judged form the Warbirds example) if KS was switched off. Not only the side switchers, but the arguments between friendlies would be to much to bear.

And to top it all off, I also have encountered new players shouting abuse at me and threatening to shoot me down. Sure enough, a friendly on my 6 firing... KS, don't even touch it.

Widewing · « **Reply #19 on:** February 14, 2003, 08:47:59 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by hogenbor
Leave KS as it is. If you accidently hit a friendly EVEN if you worked hard for an honest kill and EVEN if he just wants to steal it, just bad luck. I can live with that.

Been flying for half a year now, shot a friendly only once (accidently, I died instantly) but can imagine the amount of abuse I would have caused by killing a friendly unintentionally. Don't want that.

I've seen too many gangbangs, KS is a blessing then, not a hindrance. I fully believe things would get massively out of hand (as can be judged form the Warbirds example) if KS was switched off. Not only the side switchers, but the arguments between friendlies would be to much to bear.

And to top it all off, I also have encountered new players shouting abuse at me and threatening to shoot me down. Sure enough, a friendly on my 6 firing... KS, don't even touch it.

We just flew a week-long scenario in the CT with killshooter off (Finn-Russo). We had no major issues whatsoever. I believe there was one case where a guy switched sides to try and exact some revenge by sneaking up on his tormentor while having a green icon... Didn't work, he flubbed it and still got popped. LOLOLOL

I only shot down one friendly intentionally, and only because he didn't care if he hit other friendlies, including me... I did, however, bag 3 friendlies with 5" naval gun fire when they decided to pursue attacking aircraft into the ack umbrella, despite being warned via text and vox that 5" shells don't discriminate. None of them complained, having accepted the risk. I lost a plane to friendly ship ack too. It's a risk you take, and it's much closer to reality as well.

Seriously, we had almost no problems with killshooter off, and virtually everyone liked the setup that way. We policed ourselves by killing offenders, which DID count towards one's score. Even so, there were very few offenders. I'm for leaving killshooter off for all CT setups. We also had one setup with friendly field protection turned off. You could accidentally kill you own strats and buildings. However, a few "gamers" took advantage of that by upping a tank for the Knits, kill his own base while a squadmate, flying Bish, brought in troops... Brady had to change the setup to end that sort of stuff.

However, in the MA with the proliferation of dedicated "gamers", I think turning off killshooter would create massive mayhem. Kill friendlies to fatten one's score, switch sides and do it again... That sort of nonsense. It's much easier to get lost in a crowd of 500+, than in 40 as we usually have in the CT.

My regards,

Widewing

AKIron · « **Reply #20 on:** February 14, 2003, 08:55:35 AM »

If it ain't broke (and it ain't) then don't fix it.

maxtor · « **Reply #21 on:** February 14, 2003, 11:02:01 AM »

That thread made interesting reading. Those IEN guys are idiots. PLayers are even defending their right to shoot friendlies. Oh yeah, I want to play THAT game (not).

(I sure hope that zabatt guy stays over there though)

Stickman · « **Reply #22 on:** February 14, 2003, 11:40:15 AM »

I'm one of the guys who flys Warbirds who'd prefer never to see killshooter turned on, and it also might interest you guys to know that we've had killshooter off for about a year or so in the WWII Arena, and there have been few incidents that warrent notice.

Of course there will always be the occasional love muffin that will deliberately kill a friendly, but I quite prefer not needing to be controlled any more than necessary. It also adds a bit of immersion by allowing friendly fire accidents, and doesn't reward the other love muffines who like to jump down in front of someone who's saddled up on a bandit and about to fire, or punish the guy who was saddled up. All in all, most of us prefer it to killshooter on. There is a small, very vocal minority who'd like to see it turned back on, but I suspect some of these may belong to the latter of the two types of love muffines described above. There's no evidence that turning it on is at all needed, and I can think of, at most, 3 to 4 incidents in the last year that would even make one consider it. For the most part (probably 99% of the time), when someone dies to friendly fire it's due to the fog or war, or purely accidental. Not bad for an online game. Of course I don't feel AH would be able to turn it off. Too many players to police themselves as Warbirds has been able to.

By the way, when AH gets the new WWII arena open, where there's a strat layer in place and more of a point to Aces High, I'm going to give it another whirl.

[edit]

Just wanted to add....what's the point of killshooter? If you don't want friendlies to be able to shoot friendlies down, just turn off friendly damage, rather than have it "bounce" back into the person who pulled the trigger. Seems more like a sick joke than anything else.

maxtor · « **Reply #23 on:** February 14, 2003, 11:49:59 AM »

With the sheer numbers of players we have in our primary areana, kill shooter is a necessity. Even if there were to be only 1 jerk in every 100 - due to the simple math of it AH has jerks in the air at any given moment, where in WB you can get lucky and that 1 in 100 might not be logged on.

Shane · « **Reply #24 on:** February 14, 2003, 11:52:29 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Stickman
Just wanted to add....what's the point of killshooter? If you don't want friendlies to be able to shoot friendlies down, just turn off friendly damage, rather than have it "bounce" back into the person who pulled the trigger. Seems more like a sick joke than anything else.

well, i, for one, would only rather see 3 guys in a conga line spraying my 6 and risking killshooter than 6 guys all spraying on my 6 without fear.

Walker42 · « **Reply #25 on:** February 14, 2003, 12:02:06 PM »

I'd like to see killshooter tied in with Vehicle Malfunctions.

With Severity related to Time, and FF Incidents. With Malfunctions cumulatively getting worse.

For Example a 1 sec isolated FF burst might cause a gun to jam. Another incident might burnout your gunsight. Maybe a repeat offender's Rudder could jam, or a violent Engine Malfunction.

Some of the best play i've experienced is with Freindly Fire on. However some of the worst experiences have been there too.

Darn Griefers!

jonnyb · « **Reply #26 on:** February 14, 2003, 12:06:10 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Widewing
We just flew a week-long scenario in the CT with killshooter off (Finn-Russo). We had no major issues whatsoever. I believe there was one case where a guy switched sides to try and exact some revenge by sneaking up on his tormentor while having a green icon... Didn't work, he flubbed it and still got popped. LOLOLOL

I only shot down one friendly intentionally, and only because he didn't care if he hit other friendlies, including me... I did, however, bag 3 friendlies with 5" naval gun fire when they decided to pursue attacking aircraft into the ack umbrella, despite being warned via text and vox that 5" shells don't discriminate. None of them complained, having accepted the risk. I lost a plane to friendly ship ack too. It's a risk you take, and it's much closer to reality as well.

Seriously, we had almost no problems with killshooter off, and virtually everyone liked the setup that way. We policed ourselves by killing offenders, which DID count towards one's score. Even so, there were very few offenders. I'm for leaving killshooter off for all CT setups. We also had one setup with friendly field protection turned off. You could accidentally kill you own strats and buildings. However, a few "gamers" took advantage of that by upping a tank for the Knits, kill his own base while a squadmate, flying Bish, brought in troops... Brady had to change the setup to end that sort of stuff.

However, in the MA with the proliferation of dedicated "gamers", I think turning off killshooter would create massive mayhem. Kill friendlies to fatten one's score, switch sides and do it again... That sort of nonsense. It's much easier to get lost in a crowd of 500+, than in 40 as we usually have in the CT.

My regards,

Widewing

I, too, spent some time in the CT with ks off. I thought it was fantastic. I remember flying one sortie and pulling a deflection shot on a Russian plane. Unfortunately, my lead was miscalculated and the 30mm round landed squarely in the nose of a friendly. I felt absolutely terrible and apologized profusely.

My tactics completely changed after that. No longer did I go for the near-impossible lead shots but worked into a better position, and gave way if another teammate had the obvious advantage. There were no conga lines present because everyone was communicating position to other friendlies.

I'm all for shutting down killshooter. Yes, I understand there will be whining and complaining about how some jerks are going to just fire through you, or others will just switch sides to kill friendlies.

This will happen. There is no doubt. However, implementation of a "grounded" time or banning repeat offenders, etc., etc. will help alleviate the problem and things will eventually balance.

YMMV.

MotorOil · « **Reply #27 on:** February 14, 2003, 12:22:46 PM »

Quote

well, i, for one, would only rather see 3 guys in a conga line spraying my 6 and risking killshooter than 6 guys all spraying on my 6 without fear.

I'm for that:)

qweqwe · « **Reply #28 on:** February 14, 2003, 12:45:37 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by funkedup
Yep. Last time I flew a WB arena with no killshooter, we ended up spending more time policing teamkillers than actually fighting the enemy.

when and in what arena? ive flown historical arena where killshooters off
for 2+ years and seen intentional team killing only 2 or 3 times.

team killing is rare thus the furious thread happened.

Elfie · « **Reply #29 on:** February 14, 2003, 12:49:10 PM »

The only times I have been affected by killshooter are when someone pulls in front of me while I'm firing (happened alot when I had tracers off) or when dropping ordinance.

Last night while dropping bombs on an nme town I warned people on vox and text to get clear, yet somene ignored the warning and came in as I released (he was under me so I couldn't see him), when my bomb exploded so did I.

If you don't want people shooting friendlies just turn off damage to ALL planes from friendly fire. To many just don't care if YOU go down in flames from your own bullets.

There are advantages and disadvantages to any system used to discouraged *blue on blue* incidents. With friendly fire damage turned off you would see more people spraying *through* friendlies trying to get the kill. Is that *worse* than having someone on your low 6 (where you can't see them) blow past you right into your tracer fire?

Elfie
Armageddon Pile-it