Author Topic: Nice 20/20 about our glorious airforce (Read 2336 times)

AKIron · « **Reply #30 on:** March 03, 2003, 04:01:44 PM »

Miko, if you think sexual assault is worse at military academies than civilian universities or that military academies are the only ones interested in covering it up then yes, it's worse than you thought.

Here's an interesting excerpt from one of many hundreds of articles like it to be found on the web.

College Women at Risk

According to the U.S. Department of Justice, young women (ages 16-24) are most at risk of being raped. A study published in American College Health (September 1997) found that one out of every five young women surveyed reported they had been forced to have sexual intercourse. Yet even the largest universities report only a few sexual assaults per year, despite the requirement to report serious crimes on campus under the Campus Security Act of 1990. The general public may believe their local campus is a safe place, but in reality many young men have been sent the message that they can rape without consequence. Administrators often convince sexual assault victims to utilize the college's disciplinary system by promising that the matter will be handled quietly, an inducement not offered by civil authorities.

"College disciplinary boards have no business adjudicating rape cases. They should be turned over to the criminal justice system," argues NOW’s Executive Vice President Kim Gandy, a former prosecutor. "These boards do not have the training or the authority to be judges, and even if they should hold a student responsible, expulsion or suspension from college is hardly an appropriate punishment for the crime of rape."

miko2d · « **Reply #31 on:** March 03, 2003, 04:19:01 PM »

AKIron: Miko, if you think sexual assault is worse at military academies than civilian universities or that military academies are the only ones interested in covering it up then yes, it's worse than you thought.

It is more of a shock than anything else. I was already of a pretty low opinion of american universities but I held the US military establishment in highest regard.

miko

midnight Target · « **Reply #32 on:** March 03, 2003, 04:40:27 PM »

Quote

And therein lies the PC roadkill that totally skews this issue.

Coerced sex is technically any sex that wasn't the woman's idea in the first place, while she was sober and well rested. The whole thing is purely subjective and is entirely impossible to prove one way or the other. Coerced and Forced are not interchangeable words.

So now it's PCs fault young men can't get laid without worrying about rape charges?

That sir is the roadkill you were looking for. Rape charges don't surprise rapists! And rape is not inevitable for women in the service. Does anyone here feel the inclination to rape a coworker? My god! This board can get downright midevil sometimes.

miko2d · « **Reply #33 on:** March 03, 2003, 05:55:58 PM »

midnight Target: So now it's PCs fault young men can't get laid without worrying about rape charges?

Glad you've asked

http://www.fredoneverything.net/PhallicHorror.shtml

If you need a woman's opinion on feminism, look up Phyllis Schlafly.

miko

Mini D · « **Reply #34 on:** March 03, 2003, 06:46:47 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by midnight Target
So now it's PCs fault young men can't get laid without worrying about rape charges?

That sir is the roadkill you were looking for. Rape charges don't surprise rapists! And rape is not inevitable for women in the service. Does anyone here feel the inclination to rape a coworker? My god! This board can get downright midevil sometimes.

Sigh...

"coerced sex is always wrong"

Please... define coerced for me. Don't just quote a part of what I said... does Coerced = raped? Is "he talked me into it" equivelant to rape? Cause that's pretty much what's being said. And that's pretty much how the stats are generated.

MiniD

Mathman · « **Reply #35 on:** March 03, 2003, 08:31:33 PM »

Miko,

Thanks for proving my point. It is easy to twist peoples words around by just taking a single portion of it. Do I think you meant that it was ok for this to happen to city girls but not farm girls? Of course not. All I was doing was showing that not everything is as it always appears unless you get the whole story.

Do I know what happened there? No. Do you? I would be willing to guess probably not. From what I have read, it is completely unnacceptable and totally reprehensible. I am fairly certain you feel the same way.

Anyways, just because this happened in this instance doesn't mean that all the males in the Air Force are rapists and all the women are victims. If you go by this logic, you should believe that all men are rapists, murderers, thieves, etc. just because the vast majority of violent crimes are caused by males.

Hangtime · « **Reply #36 on:** March 03, 2003, 09:56:51 PM »

Miko will not accept ideas that arrive in a setting that reflects reality.

If Miko thinks he cannot personally educate his daughters on appropriate behavior and defensive/avoidance proceedures, it is the fault of the state sponsored education system.

Miko flat refuses to accept that the world is not run by his standards, and bemoans the inability of the world to accept those same standards as the REAL deal.

Miko should tour West Point, Colorado Springs and Annapolis, then tour Indiana U. and any Holy Cross.

Educate yer kids right, and they'll thrive at any of those colleges.

That includes SEX education, Miko. How to avoid it, how to enjoy it. You are right about one thing.. the system should not be expected to teach kids about sex in the real world. Parents should be doing that. Whats your excuse?

Join the world Miko. Bring yer kids along.

lazs2 · « **Reply #37 on:** March 04, 2003, 09:03:37 AM »

No... I do not condone rape and consider any nonconcentual sex rape. I stated that I don't think women should be in the military without the military taking extraordinary measures. I don't think well intentioned pedophiles whould be teachers or scout leaders or coaches either...

Human nature is a mixture of what makes us men and women and the extraordinary amount of hormones present in service age adults. In a perfect world... women should be able to shower with men but.... sensible people realize that a small percentage of men have no brains or will power. To deny this is stupid. Most of the denial of rape in the military is denial based on fear of failure. They are ordered to have a certain behavior and unwilling to admit that they couldn't enforce the unenforcable.

Co-ed dorms have very high incidents of rape... many schools have admitted defeat and shut them down.

defining rape in a co ed situation is complex.

putting women in the military is just feel good crap. If you wish to appear fair and "equal" then youi must be prepared to take extraordinary measures. Not really worth it in my opinion.

And yes... It probly is human nature to rape. or at least... it was long ago... most of us resist the urge but human nature hasn't changed. Many things can break down our veneer of civilization. I think putting more and more temptation in front of people is kinda stupid.
lazs

lazs2 · « **Reply #38 on:** March 04, 2003, 09:10:17 AM »

pretty sure that most of us men here would have at least one or two sexual encounters in our life that we would not wish having to defend in a court of law. Even if we are sure of the consentual part in our own minds.

lazs

Mini D · « **Reply #39 on:** March 04, 2003, 10:02:46 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
No... I do not condone rape and consider any nonconcentual sex rape. I stated that I don't think women should be in the military without the military taking extraordinary measures. I don't think well intentioned pedophiles whould be teachers or scout leaders or coaches either...

Human nature is a mixture of what makes us men and women and the extraordinary amount of hormones present in service age adults. In a perfect world... women should be able to shower with men but.... sensible people realize that a small percentage of men have no brains or will power. To deny this is stupid. Most of the denial of rape in the military is denial based on fear of failure. They are ordered to have a certain behavior and unwilling to admit that they couldn't enforce the unenforcable.

Co-ed dorms have very high incidents of rape... many schools have admitted defeat and shut them down.

defining rape in a co ed situation is complex.

putting women in the military is just feel good crap. If you wish to appear fair and "equal" then youi must be prepared to take extraordinary measures. Not really worth it in my opinion.

And yes... It probly is human nature to rape. or at least... it was long ago... most of us resist the urge but human nature hasn't changed. Many things can break down our veneer of civilization. I think putting more and more temptation in front of people is kinda stupid.
lazs

Very well said lazs.

MiniD

AKIron · « **Reply #40 on:** March 04, 2003, 10:32:23 AM »

Agree with much of what ya said Lazs. I think there are many things society imposes on us that might be contrary to our basic nature. That's one of the things that makes us different among the creatures of this planet.

However, if we neuter society's ability to impose those restrictions where will we be? Robbery, rape, and murder will become ever more common. Our laws need teeth, without them there will only be chaos, dogs and cats sleeping together, end of the world stuff here.

lazs2 · « **Reply #41 on:** March 04, 2003, 11:12:09 AM »

iron... i do not advocate neutering societies right to regulate behavior that harms others. I am merely saying that stupidly putting people in high risk situations is wrong. Many of you seem to have gotten your ideas of how behavior between the sexes can be from reading old robert heinlein sci fi. very pleasant but naive and... unrealistic.

As for combat.... granted, combat is different these days. support is more important than ever... actual hand to hand combat is rare and getting rarer... but .... I don't want women in a situation that requires any hand to hand... they are not good at it . I am 53 and can kick the crap out of any woman alive in hand to hand. I don't want them fighting alongside me. (and yes... all those tv shows that have women beating up men are full of toejam and you are a moron for thinking it's possible)
lazs

Kanth · « **Reply #42 on:** March 04, 2003, 11:13:31 AM »

I do believe Islamic fundementalists see it your way...so you have that going for you.

you know what a burka is? (spelled many ways burqa)

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
I think putting more and more temptation in front of people is kinda stupid.
lazs

edit for your understanding.

lazs2 · « **Reply #43 on:** March 04, 2003, 11:18:55 AM »

ok kanth... am i simply argueing with a woman here or can you back up what you say? What points do the islamics and myself have in common when it comes to women in this thread?
lazs

Kanth · « **Reply #44 on:** March 04, 2003, 11:27:14 AM »

laz I'm trying to find some shred of recognizability in you as a normal person, our generations are far far apart and you've grown up in a different time.

I definately agree that women shouldn't be doing jobs they aren't good at, if she isn't any good at hand to hand combat, against a man, then she shouldn't be there.

And I feel that way for all jobs, if she isn't superior to the competition (no matter the gender) then she shouldn't be picked to do the job.

But I know that such individual selection isn't easy enough for you. And I agree it's far easier to just dump anything that has any possibility of failure. But then again we'd all be non-driving cave dwelling freaks...wait another analogy to those islamic fundementalists!

steraaaaange.

btw I'm pretty certain that this chick:

http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Field/6251/ksnow.htm

would be handing you your bellybutton in about 30 seconds.

You gotta remember most of the women on tv fit a certain profile, usually model types that weigh about a dime and are there to be cutesy...the variety in the actual world is vast in intelligence, skill, and strength.

And it's the real world we're talking about here.

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2

As for combat.... granted, combat is different these days. support is more important than ever... actual hand to hand combat is rare and getting rarer... but .... I don't want women in a situation that requires any hand to hand... they are not good at it . I am 53 and can kick the crap out of any woman alive in hand to hand. I don't want them fighting alongside me. (and yes... all those tv shows that have women beating up men are full of toejam and you are a moron for thinking it's possible)
lazs