Author Topic: US dirty tricks to win vote on Iraq war (Read 3706 times)

blitz · « **Reply #30 on:** March 02, 2003, 02:16:03 PM »

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Originally posted by Udie
1. What's a bulwak?

It's bulwark = german Bollwerk

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2. We're not asking you to follow us. You guys have a free country. We (really all I can speak for is myself) are asking you not to get in our way with sadaam. He's evil and we will take him out, it is the right thing to do and it's not about oil. What shroeder did to get reelected was/is unforgivable to me. And you're efforts in the war on terrorism are apreciated here, except maybe giving that terrorist only 15 years for his part in 9/11. How about send him to England where he would at least get life.
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Every country has its own laws.

I dislike Gerhard Schroeders politics concerning Iraq too as it looks like an election issue and most likely is. Not the first time i say this on this board.

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3. I don't think I called you a name, it's not my style anymore. I've done it in the past but it doesn't really help in an argument. That being said, you would be utterly amazed at the amount of text I have written to/about you and then deleted before hitting the "submit reply" button

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Originally posted by Udie
You just can't grasp the obvious. Iraq is totaly able to feed it's people. Saddam WON"T feed them. Take a look at the picture of that starving child at the top of this thread. THAT"S why this must be done you whoopeeed ignorant appeaser. That's what saddam gives his people. How many pallaces has he built with the "oil for food" money that FRANCE gives him, knowing that he takes it for himself and starves his people.

You people make me sick.... [/QUOTE

No biggy But please don't bash my country either , bash it's goverment

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4. America is not bad. I want you to honestly think about what the USA could do if it wanted to. The fact that we are wasting so much time at the UN should say something about us at the very least. We could have turned the whole middle east into a glass parking lot on 9/12/01 had we wanted to, and believe me many Americans wanted to do just that. We still could. I do get very pissed at anti-americanism because I know what my country has done for the world, at my and my families and friends expense. All this money we give to the world come out of my taxes. I personaly pay for part of it. Most of the time I don't mind, in fact I'm happy that I can help some starving kid in Africa. But when my (the USA's) hand starts getting bitten by the mouth it is feeding I get pissed.
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I didn't said America is bad . But it's no disneyland world, people living there and these people could as easily be wrong as anywhere else on the globe.

How do you feed us, not sure what you meant ?

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5. I don't hate Germany. I have some German friends and they are great people. Hell, a large part of central Texas was settled by Germans in the mid 1800's. There is a LOT of German herritige all around us here in Austin. France is another matter, they suck.
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If ya don't hate it why you threaten it all the time with economical war ? Bash on it's goverment if ya like, that's fine with me.

6. As much as you piss me off, and you REALLY DO, I don't hate you either. If we ever met, I'm sure we'd have lots in common and could have a good time together. It's just that you are so wrong on this Iraq thing it's mind boggling. AND you are so wrong about Bush. He's our president, not yours. Like him or not, a majority of the USA aproves of the job he is doing. I think he could be doing better on the domestic side myself, but he's got a large part of the senate blocking him at all times. Considering the toejam he's had to face since he took office I think he is doing an outstanding job. AND at least he didn't turn our population against an ally of 60 years to win the election.

now I'm off to get laid [/B][/QUOTE]

Well, i don't hate ya either , why should i.

I strongly dislike your goverment and you love it, that's all.

That's normal political dissens to me

Blitz

If ya ever come to Berlin i owe you a beer

Ping · « **Reply #31 on:** March 03, 2003, 02:36:05 AM »

I am really tired of hearing how America saved Germany from the Communist horde.
Germany was a Buffer Zone. End of story. In any attack from the USSR, Germany would have been trampled but giving the USA time to Regroup and retaliate.
It wasn't about saving Germany, It was about having a forward base of operations.

Toad · « **Reply #32 on:** March 03, 2003, 02:37:52 AM »

I think the purpose and actual result was that the presence of that many US troops was to insure that the scenario you mentioned did not happen. And it didn't.

I'm not suprised it angers you though.

Ping · « **Reply #33 on:** March 03, 2003, 02:41:03 AM »

Anger?...I didn't mention anger. Tired? yes.
Toad, The Troops were there to do exactly as you said. And Germany was the Forward Line of defense as I said.
Any arguments otherwise?

Toad · « **Reply #34 on:** March 03, 2003, 02:52:10 AM »

Yes, clearly it wasn't about having a forward base of operations. Like Korea today, the opposition had enough manpower and armor to pretty well obliterate any "forward base" if they were willing to take the losses. Something the USSR proved they were willing to do in WW2 if they felt they needed to.

As I said, they were there to make it unmistakably clear that any action against Germany meant all out war between the US and the USSR. There could be no doubt that any reaction might be held up in the UN Security Council by a recalcitrant ally. It meant immediate and unrestricted war.

It's exactly the same in Korea today. For all his bluster, Kim Jong Il knows if he attacks across the DMZ that 37,000 US service men will die fighting against his troops. And he knows exactly what retribution that will bring. It's not about any "forward base of operations". It's simply a committment written in blood to our friends that dictators can easily understand.

Toad · « **Reply #35 on:** March 03, 2003, 02:53:45 AM »

Oh, yeah..... it did have the effect of saving Germany from the "Communist horde". Remember stuff like the Berlin Airlift? What do you think the Soviets were trying to do there?

Ping · « **Reply #36 on:** March 03, 2003, 03:10:41 AM »

The Berlin Airlift was not the defense of Germany as a whole, That was the defense of The city that was a thorn in the Commies sides.
An American base Inside their borders. Had to be pretty humiliating dont you think?
There were many losses and that is a credit to the US Airmen that went up in Horrendous conditions and I have to admire them for that.
Toad, For the most part I do agree with much of what you say.

To be realistic though, Germany was being used as a Buffer against USSR aggression against the European Continent.

Dowding · « **Reply #37 on:** March 03, 2003, 03:40:56 AM »

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I took 2 years of French in junior high, glad I remember none of it.

Take pride in your ignorance. Ignorance makes you strong.

-tronski- · « **Reply #38 on:** March 03, 2003, 04:00:06 AM »

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Originally posted by Cabby44
Read the so-called "memo". No American uses the spelling found in the so-called "memo". This is a phony story published in a Leftist rag.

What else is new.....

Cabby

· Footnote: This email was originally transcribed with English spellings standardised for a British audience. Following enquiries about this, we have reverted to the original US-spelling as in the document leaked to The Observer.

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Take pride in your ignorance. Ignorance makes you strong.

I plan to steal that phrase for future use

Tronsky

Dowding · « **Reply #39 on:** March 03, 2003, 06:09:46 AM »

Orwell beat me to it long ago, Tronski, and it's already in your sig.

BTW, just for the record, The Observer is not a leftist rag. It's a centre ground broadsheet and is quite separate from the left-leaning Guardian.

Toad · « **Reply #40 on:** March 03, 2003, 07:33:54 AM »

Really, an American base? Here all this time I thought Berlin was divided into four sectors after the war; Russian, French, British and American. Now I find out it was just an American base. And I believe you slighted the pilots from the RAF that participated.

And it was in defense of "Germany as a whole" in that it was a defense of the post-War peace agreement.

I can't support the idea that Germany was just a throw-away buffer like a kleenex. We drew a line right there on the border between East and West Germany and put enough troops there to clearly say "No Farther". The US would've gone to unrestricted warfare had that line been crossed. That's far more than a "buffer" to me.

-tronski- · « **Reply #41 on:** March 03, 2003, 08:37:11 AM »

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Originally posted by Dowding
Orwell beat me to it long ago, Tronski, and it's already in your sig.

1984 is a real masterpiece.

He gazed up at the enormous face. Forty years it had taken him to learn what kind of smile was hidden beneath the dark moustache. O cruel, needless misunderstanding! O stubborn, self-willed exile from the loving breast! Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself.
He loved Big Brother.

Tronsky

Naso · « **Reply #42 on:** March 03, 2003, 09:07:38 AM »

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Originally posted by Toad
I can't support the idea that Germany was just a throw-away buffer like a kleenex.

I can understand your position, Toad, but when I was military in Italy, all the officers told us that in case of war with the URSS behemoth, the unwritten agreement, the plans in NATO HQ had for Italy the duty to resist for a minimum of 24 Hours, to let the US troops reorganize and strike back.
In this plan there was alsoo the idea to load some tac-nuke on our planes and nuke some of ours city to apply the "burning land" tecnique.

With luck all this is past now, but the "buffer zone" role cannot be denied, at least military speaking.

Ping · « **Reply #43 on:** March 03, 2003, 10:30:52 AM »

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/coldwar/documents/episode-9/04-01.htm
Germany in a full scale attack from the USSR would have been wiped out, with much of western Europe. It would bring Nuclear weapons into play from NATO. Would that not be buffer against Soviet aggression?
Seems were playing with words here.
Oh yes I must be PC. All Airmen in the Airlift faced horrendous conditions and I admire them for that.

Purpose for edit: I have no problem seeing that the US rebuilt Germany and that their presence had a major impact on their economy. But I think as adults here we should be able to point out that US government policy is not always Altruistic.
I would like to apologize if I have left the impression that I am Anti-American, as I really am not. Just cant stand the Administration.

Toad · « **Reply #44 on:** March 03, 2003, 10:49:23 AM »

Yes, you are playing with words. the US committment was clear and it was for all of Europe. Obviously, there was going to be some place where the troops would be facing each other.

As for PC, you miss the point. You tried to portray Berlin as a solely "American base" which flies in the face of history. I'm sure the British in Berlin.... and particularly the French... would not agree with your assessment. But, hey, it sort of looked better for arguing your position, right?