Author Topic: US woman killed protesting in Gaza  (Read 3889 times)

Offline Scootter

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US woman killed protesting in Gaza
« Reply #120 on: March 18, 2003, 09:24:30 AM »
I nomanate here for this years Darwin awards.

Offline Turdboy

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US woman killed protesting in Gaza
« Reply #121 on: March 18, 2003, 09:27:05 AM »
I look at it this way....if you are stupid enough to stand in the way of something that can kill you then no one should be suprised when it does.

Was it her fault?

Hell Yes!

Hortlund I think pictures are important to show the handsomehunkes of this world what can happen to them.

Offline Rude

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Re: Re: US woman killed protesting in Gaza
« Reply #122 on: March 18, 2003, 10:05:46 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Animal
And then Grunherz goes WAY TO GO ISRAEL!

Pathetic.

 



Fantasies of destruction? Their homes are being demolished you fool.
Tell me, if a person in the USA gets in the way of a demolition, do the US workers just run over her? They get her out first, by force.

Israelis just RUN OVER THEM.

And the Palestinians just have fantasies of destruction. LOL

Ditto what Hangtime said.
That girl should have known better what the Israelis are. Even she underestimated their apetite for conquest and destruction, and paid with her life, foolishly.

Darwin, because she should have known better.


Quote
Even she underestimated their apetite for conquest and destruction, and paid with her life, foolishly.


Well Animal....you got the paid for her life foolishly part down pat....the other referring to conquest and destruction by the Israelis is slightly skewed imo.....spose they should just sit around and take the terror just like others wanted the US to do regarding the all powerful UN?

Offline Dowding

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US woman killed protesting in Gaza
« Reply #123 on: March 18, 2003, 10:15:42 AM »
Read upon it Rude. Those houses were being cleared to increase the security buffer. And their occupants were not compensated.

That would piss me off if my house was destroyed.

Last month, a whole section of shops was demolished because they were 'trading illegally'. Livelihoods gone, more occupants for the refugee camps and more recruits for the extremists.

Check out the 40 year old UN resolution for them to vacate the occupied territories. Check out your own president's call to the Israelis to stop taking Palestinian land for Israeli settles.
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline air_guard

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US woman killed protesting in Gaza
« Reply #124 on: March 18, 2003, 10:16:18 AM »
this is getting really intresting.
when the student in china put himselve in front of a panzer he became a hero for the world.

when a student put fire on himselve in protest against the soviets invaded the checoslovakinan  (wrong spelled i know)republic in 1968 he was a hero.

when a woman put heresevle in front of a israleli dozer she is a handsomehunk ?

why ?
Did she have the wrong ideas about the world ?
and from who is that coming.

did the chinese boy had a wrong idea about his leadership, who knows I guess he had a opinion on that.

same with the czheck boy, the russians didnt give a toejame about him but the rest of us did.
And that was the second time the czecks was left over to dictators in the 1900`s
we didnt do anything but clapping the soviets hands and say ok this is enough and no more rofl-.

« Last Edit: March 18, 2003, 10:29:13 AM by air_guard »

Offline batdog

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US woman killed protesting in Gaza
« Reply #125 on: March 18, 2003, 10:34:39 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
Some of us do come from countries where family and friends getting blown into little pieces was a threat. Where our armed forces were not allowed to wear their uniform off-duty in case of attack.

So piss off with your lecturing, you ignoramus.


Dowding.. I served along side some Coldstream guards. I rem them telling me thy we heading to NI soon. I hope they all made it okay.


People..somebody dieing sucks... reveling in it sucks to. I'm pro Isreal but they have some issues that need to addressed.

Oh..and for the record... the Isrealies dont buldoze random homes. The take down indiv's who support have assisted or joined the organisations that they are in conflict with.
Of course, I only see what he posts here and what he does in the MA.  I know virtually nothing about the man.  I think its important for people to realize that we don't really know squat about each other.... definately not enough to use words like "hate".

AKDejaVu

Offline Shuckins

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US woman killed protesting in Gaza
« Reply #126 on: March 18, 2003, 10:48:09 AM »
There are hundreds of thousands of Palestinian Muslims who DO NOT take part in terrorist bombings.  If given the opportunity, they and the Israelis would, eventually, iron out their differences.  But Hamas and other terrorist organizations will never allow that to happen.  These groups murder and intimidate not only Israelis but any Muslims foolish enough to try to work with them for the purpose of establishing peace.  The terrorists do not want a homeland established next door to Israel.  They want a nation built on the bones of Israel.  

The "human shields" traveling to the Middle East are choosing sides in what the Israelis see as a struggle for survival.  These naive idealists play into the hands of the terrorists and lend them support in their struggle.

During my stay in Israel eleven years ago one of the ladies in my group stated that "She couldn't understand why the Israelis felt that they had a right to be in Palestine."

My response was that they had to be SOMEWHERE.  Why NOT here?  Many of the Israeli settlers are refugees or the descendants of refugees who fled their countries for a new life free of persecution.  Their attempts at establishing their own nation brought them into conflict with the Muslims of the Middle East.  Many of the more implacable Muslim leaders have no inclination to allow them to stay, under any circumstances, despite that Israel occupies less than one percent of the total land area of the Middle East.

I realize I'm rambling a bit.  And I also realize that there are two sides to every argument.  But I think it is short-sighted and hypocritical to sit here, thousands of miles away from those events, and render judgement on Israel's motives without taking into consideration the NATURE of the enemy they face.  

Three scenes linger in my memory from that trip to the Middle East:

1.  A kibbutz surrounded with metal fences and barbed wire, tanks on station in berms at each end of this farming community, with children playing inside.

2.  An otherwise peaceful community in northern Israel with a two story concrete tower (part of a power station, if memory serves) located near its central square.  A window in the upper story was surrounded by pockmarks from hundreds of rounds of rifle shells.  A sniper had secreted himself in it one night, and then opened fire on the civilians below the next morning as they went to work or to the market.

3.  Elementary school children playing in a park in Tel Aviv, blissfully unaware of the fact that their teachers and bus drivers were standing guard armed with Uzis and assault weapons.

Don't you think you might be a little "stiff-necked" if you had to live under similar circumstances?

Regards, Shuckins

Offline air_guard

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US woman killed protesting in Gaza
« Reply #127 on: March 18, 2003, 11:03:30 AM »
well I know a little about it since i served in the UN forces in Libanon for about 12 months. (1986-87)
I was supposed to be there for 6 months but took another period aswell.
Guess i could  say somthing about the arabs and somthing about the Isralies but I wont.
1 thing i can say they both want peace, well that was what i learnt over there.
And we had to work on both sides.


Learnt alot that I will not use in this forum.


edit: It is the stiff necks that wont allow peace in that region :(
« Last Edit: March 18, 2003, 11:09:01 AM by air_guard »

Offline Hortlund

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US woman killed protesting in Gaza
« Reply #128 on: March 18, 2003, 11:09:24 AM »
Air Guard, a buddy of mine served 6 months on the Israel-Lebanon border too.

He went there "normal" and he came back hating jews and arabs. One of his mates were killed in that failed Israeli rescue attempt when a gunboat raked the shack with .50cal fire.

Offline Naso

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US woman killed protesting in Gaza
« Reply #129 on: March 18, 2003, 11:11:04 AM »
Suchkins, all you said is true and sad, but I think you are missing the other half of the equation.

It's not a black and white situation, but I still believe is possible to recover it.

Get rid of the extremists on both parts, and let the moderate, peace lovers regain control.

Israel side:

The extreme right, never heard of sionists? tha "great Israel"? Something in an amaizing way similar to "Mein kampf" BS.

Religious extremists.

Settlers, expecially the last generation ones, the ones coming from former URSS, as someone told me the more violent ones.

Palestinian side:

The Fanatic religious organizations

The Laic terrorists (yes, not all the terrorists are of the religious type).

After this cleansing, and with a HUGE effort, the concept of a peacefull living can have some hope.

A friend of mine (lost contact) is an Israelian from Bethlem, he have IL citizenship, Israel passport...

Only a little problem: his passport is in a different colour of the usual one (yellow??).

Do you know why?

Offline air_guard

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US woman killed protesting in Gaza
« Reply #130 on: March 18, 2003, 11:16:52 AM »
cc hortlund that happned to 2 guys in my period too(1 walked on mines, and one was sniped)  I dont hate them (neither of them) but acutally think i understand the problem.

I have seen it from both sides, mostly arabs but when on free time we went to Tel aviv and that is a great place :D
both the arabs and the isralies is human beeings like us, and
they sure want to live in peace but as usual bad eggs killing that possibility :(

well most isrealy and arabs have the same wishes and isnt that odd ?

I think it will take 100`s of years to clean the toejam up, but hope it get on faster.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2003, 11:19:05 AM by air_guard »

Offline Shuckins

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US woman killed protesting in Gaza
« Reply #131 on: March 18, 2003, 11:20:35 AM »
Naso,

The Israeli government issues different colored passports for security reasons.  Evidently, they are not concerned about racial profiling or political correctness.

But what you say is true;  the ordinary Israelis and Arabs will never be allowed to live in peace because of the extremists.  The only differences between the extremists tend to be their approaches to the use of violence.  In my possibly biased opinion, one approach is more reprehensible than the other.

Regards, Shuckins

Offline BigGun

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US woman killed protesting in Gaza
« Reply #132 on: March 18, 2003, 11:30:51 AM »
Palestinians will never get land until Israel gets sense of security. OTOH, Israel will never get security until Palestinians get land. That is one helluva mess.

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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US woman killed protesting in Gaza
« Reply #133 on: March 18, 2003, 12:15:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
Suave - they are exactly the same bull dozer in both photos, and definitely not the armoured bulldozer in your picture.

The only reservation I have is with the treeline - but there is a movement of POV from the first to the second photo that might account for that.


Dowding, notice the differences between the lights mounted on the cab and the accessories mounted on the cab in both pictures. One has the lights mounted in front of the cab, just below the roof, at the corners. The other has the lights mounted above the cab, at the same corners. Also, there are different accessories mounted to the roof of each, and in different locations. There are also slight differences in the steel gaurd on top of the blade. They are in fact two different bulldozers. The differences may or may not be immediately apparent to the casual observer, but with a little knowledge of heavy equipment and some attention to detail, they will be clearly visible. Every bit as visible as the fact that those "skulls" someone claimed were on the bulldozer are actually the hydraulic rams and knuckles that raise and lower the blade.

There is little doubt she was in one way or another killed by being crushed under a piece of tracked heavy equipment. However, nothing in the written account matches the photos used for evidence, other than there is a girl (maybe, you cannot readily identify the person(s) in the photos), a bulldozer (actually two different bulldozers), a bullhorn, and some ground where it took place (possibly not even the same location). She's not even under the supposed pile of rubble when the bulldozer is only 30 feet away, when they claim she was crushed as the bulldozer pushed a pile of dirt, sand, and debris over her, ran over her, backed over her, and the reversed to a position several hundred yards away. In the time it would take the bulldozer to back up 30 feet from her body, there is absolutely no way two or three people could possibly hope to remove at least a ton of dirt, sand and debris to uncover her. And remember, those who provide the photo claim she was buried under a pile of dirt, sand, and debris as tall as the blade of the bulldozer (about 6 FEET high), then driven over and crushed by the same bulldozer, backed over and crushed again by the same bulldozer, and then they rushed forward and dug her out of said pile, crushed and compacted by the bulldozer, as the bulldozer continually retreated in reverse to a position several hundred yards away. Yet in well under 30 seconds, two people had her dug out of the pile and held her while another person took the photos! Two people couldn't move a ton or more of debris in thirty minutes, let alone 30 seconds.

Where are the rest of the pictures they would most certainly have and be willing to show if the pictures backed up their claims?

In order to take their account as factual, you should be able to clearly and easily match the account in complete and total detail with the photos, and it does not even come close. You are taking photos, which do not match the eyewitness account (given by the same people who took the photos), taken by, and provided for viewing by, a group of people with an obvious agenda, as the absolute and certain truth beyond any doubt. A foolhardy basis for a statement of fact at best.

Is it a sad, pitiful incident? No doubt. Is it proof beyond a shadow of a doubt that she was intentionally pursued and crushed by an IDF bulldozer? Not hardly. Not even close.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2003, 12:23:04 PM by Captain Virgil Hilts »
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline air_guard

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US woman killed protesting in Gaza
« Reply #134 on: March 18, 2003, 01:05:25 PM »
http://www.futt.com/rune/index.php?file=remember2.html

sorry schultz wont say cause will reveal identity :)

that link give those who wanted to give peace a chance a name.


hint: you know a guy called John Gerhard Berg ?

if not search VG and you find out why I wont reveal my identy in here.
He was a member of HA. and bombed the bandidos hq in drammen some years ago.
And the fuker is close to me grrr :(
I sure hope he rest i jail rofl.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2003, 01:13:41 PM by air_guard »