Attention C-Hog haters

[AKSeaWulfe]

I was wrong about the FG-1 being the F2G, I read the information wrong. However, since the FG-1 is the F4U-1D built by Goodyear-- it does NOT have 20mms in WW2. All -1Ds had .50s only the -1C had 20mms.
-SW

[SKurj]

 

Originally posted by Zigrat:
uhmm explain this c hog drivers
i was doing a little testing
please excuse my poor gunnery with hispano cannon I am not used to their trajectory, else the fight would have ended sooner (the spit not the f4u)
 http://www.iit.edu/~buonmic/f4u.ahf

Wow u got here fast Zig +)
heh at least i get a mention as the shot down msg...

SKurj

[juzz]

F4UDOA, I think you will find that all cannon-armed Corsairs had Browning cannon. The difference evident in those photos probably being that the -1C has a copy of the Hispano Mk II, and the -5 has a copy of the Mk V which had a shorter barrel.

[Fishu]

I am not so much worried of F4u's performance, what comes to flying, but more of their 30mm AP/HE cannons.
If it hits plane, it is ripping things like 30mm HE round and when it comes to tanks, it is like 50mm AP.

It is funny that Hispano/M2 actually works better than 37mm on the tanks.
Even if makes just low angle ride on the front armour of the tank.
And we know that 37mm performs sometimes very very good at the tanks. (and Hispano/m2 even better?)

[Vermillion]

I'm with Juzz, if I remember correctly all the "Hispano" cannons the US used were copies made by Browning or other manufacturers.

And before all the "Hog Haters" jump on the gunjam bandwagon, thinking its a basis to remove the -1C, lets not forget that gunjams occurred with all MG's and cannons (notice I say all cannons for instance the MG151), especially under high G loads. So it would be something that would be applied across the board.

------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

[This message has been edited by Vermillion (edited 10-23-2000).]

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by Vermillion:
I'm with Juzz, if I remember correctly all the "Hispano" cannons the US used were copies made by Browning or other manufacturers.

And before all the "Hog Haters" jump on the gunjam bandwagon, thinking its a basis to remove the -1C, lets not forget that gunjams occurred with all MG's and cannons (notice I say all cannons for instance the MG151), especially under high G loads. So it would be something that would be applied across the board.

Hispanos had quite alot jams  
and with those long bursts that they do against tanks...  go figure the jamming rate.

More than that, power difference between other cannons is huge against tanks and planes.

[juzz]

OK Zigrat, what exactly needs explaining?

[-lazs-]

many of the goodyear -1's were made with no folding wings or tailhooks.  They were lighter planes than any of the other Hogs and were considered the best "handlers" by pilots.  All Corsairs have the best stick forces in WWII.  They had mechanically boosed ailerons and were very light and easy to use at all speeds.   All anecdotal eveidence shows that a Hog would turn with a Hellcat and any WWII (or later) pilot will tell you that a P51 was "no match" for a Corsair below about 20K.

The fifties in AH are problematic for me.   They don't work in a repeatable manner.  Sometimes they work and other times they don't.   It is most likely the fault of the internet but.... Who cares?   The results are unhistoric.   Given a choice many pilots chose the fifty equipped versions.   Many pilots shut off at least 2 of their 6 fifties to conserve ammo since they felt 4 was plenty against other fighters.  In AH it would be foolish to shut off 2 fifties.

 Because of these things I fly the cannon Hog instead of the fifty equipped one even tho it is easier to get hits with the fifties.  Cuts down on my frustration level..

Yeager is correct... In a game where armement is selectable, and there is so much variance... why not allow planes to take whatever guns they had available?   If everyone allways chooses cannon loadouts then perhaps the MG's need to be looked at.
lazs

[This message has been edited by -lazs- (edited 10-23-2000).]

[fats]

AKSeaWulfe,

I have a book quoting 1 stoppage per 1500 rounds of 20mm fired. Well that number is from the last year of the war and for 2nd Tactical Air Force only, but with 13500000 rounds fired it is probably worth something.


//fats

[F4UDOA]

Thanks Juzz,

Didn't know that. I thought the earlier versions were Hispano's and the later were Brownings. Didn't know that they were both Hispano copies.

AKseawulfe,

Ok now you understand what an FG-1D is but you need to reread my message. The Cover of Air Classics Magazine as well as Fly Past Mag this month shows a newly restored FG-1D with 20mil cannons in the wings. My point is that I think that this A/C was manufactured this way because I have seen a number like it. Specifically a number of FG-1D that were shipped to El Salvador and fought in the "Soccer Wars" of 1968. They were 20Mill equiped. But I am looking for Goodyear production records that show this.

Here is a pic of the new pace car at Indy this year. Get out of line and you get straffed and bombed.
   


Later
F4UDOA


[This message has been edited by F4UDOA (edited 10-23-2000).]

[Zigrat]

you see thatcrazy film how i outflew a spitfire in a c hog? then shot him with my lasers?   yeah pretty cool huh  

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by -lazs-:
The fifties in AH are problematic for me.   They don't work in a repeatable manner.  Sometimes they work and other times they don't.   It is most likely the fault of the internet but.... Who cares?   The results are unhistoric.   Given a choice many pilots chose the fifty equipped versions.   Many pilots shut off at least 2 of their 6 fifties to conserve ammo since they felt 4 was plenty against other fighters.  In AH it would be foolish to shut off 2 fifties.

 Because of these things I fly the cannon Hog instead of the fifty equipped one even tho it is easier to get hits with the fifties.  Cuts down on my frustration level..

Yeager is correct... In a game where armement is selectable, and there is so much variance... why not allow planes to take whatever guns they had available?   If everyone allways chooses cannon loadouts then perhaps the MG's need to be looked at.
lazs

Remember that they were shooting zekes and other very flammable and paper like objects..

[lazs]

fishu... late war jap planes had self sealing fuel tanks and pilot armor.   P51's and p47's shot at german ac and found them quite as easy to down with 4, 6 or 8 fifties as their PAC war bretheren found late war jap planes.  No particular "toughness" was attributed to non U.S. Euro planes that I know of except that 109's were considered easier to down than 190's.   To lump all jap planes in the "rice paper" catagorie is naive.
lazs

[AKSeaWulfe]

Right F4UDOA, except that my point is that refurberations/restorations are not always accurate. Sometimes they do it for looks, or just for the hell of it. I've seen 109Gs rebuilt that only had 2x 7,9mms in the cowling and 1x13mm MG firing through the nose. And those 20mm armed craft that were sent around in '68 were probably armed with .50s during WWII. Point is: No matter what they are armed with now, we are trying to recreate what they had back then. Otherwise, why not throw in a couple F4 Phantoms and see what happens? ;-) Find WWII production numbers on how many FG-1s had 20mms and I'll shut up(I know you are looking).
-SW

[F4UDOA]

Zigrat,

Great fight. But it looked to me as if the Spit was getting a clear overhead shot when he reversed over your head. If he would have tightened his turn instead of continuing to scissor(SP) he probably would have had you.
Instead he used the wrong tactic in the wrong plane. The Spitty at low speed will actually accellerate past the F4U. The F4U with two notches of flap and 50% fuel handles very well.

It is the perception of how the F4U is supposed to fly compared to reality. The F4U has a tag of "Ensign Eliminator" that relates to landing on A/C at 70knots. And the fact that they didn't dogfight with Zero's. This must mean that it can't dogfight right? Wrong. It had lower wingloading than the P-51, P-47, P-38 and was most comprable to the F6F. With two notches of flap and 50% fuel it becomes even better. You are engineering student Zig, you definitly know why this true. If you would like to do some offline testing in the SEA let me know. I would bet that you cannot escape me in a contstant left turn in F4U vrs Spit.

See ya Up
F4UDOA


[This message has been edited by F4UDOA (edited 10-23-2000).]