Author Topic: How to kill a Spitfire in the P-38 Part I - The Cloverleaf maneuver (Read 2835 times)

Kweassa · « **Reply #30 on:** August 06, 2003, 04:00:39 PM »

I still don't get it.

All it sounds like, and judging by the drawings, is just an alternation between lead pursuit and lag pursuit. If a Spit9, would just turn hard in one direction, it might work, but against an AH Spit9, with the pilot pulling max AoA possible in the tightest radius... I doubt if the P-38 would pull more than two 'leaves'.

...

Or, against an AH Spit14, now that would make sense.

...

I dunno.. I think I'll need to see a film to undestand this one.

DAVENRINO · « **Reply #31 on:** August 07, 2003, 01:19:06 PM »

MOSQ,
I grew up in West Linn.
DJ229 - AIR MAFIA

MOSQ · « **Reply #32 on:** August 07, 2003, 03:56:51 PM »

Daverino,
I tried to email you but that's turned off. I have the same interests you do ( windsurfing, beach bum) but alas I can't quite pull that off yet.
Do you ever come back to sail the gorge ?

empty · « **Reply #33 on:** August 07, 2003, 09:00:20 PM »

I am reasonably certain everything torques left except the typhoon and tempest.

Interesting manuever Ack-Ack.

DAVENRINO · « **Reply #34 on:** August 07, 2003, 11:10:14 PM »

MOSQ,
Haven't been to Oregon for couple years but my Dad and brother still live in West Linn. It is just too hard too tear myself away from paradise. BTW also getting into kiteboarding now.
DJ

Lephturn · « **Reply #35 on:** August 10, 2003, 12:42:12 PM »

I would think any amount of vertical component would end up superior to such a maneuver. I'd only want to try it I think with low fuel and when I was totally flat on the deck and out of options. That said, in any plane with decent low speed handling with good low speed accelleration, it might be worth trying. Versus something like a Spit I think the real strength of this maneuver is to tease the enemy into pushing it too hard and riding his craft a bit too deep into stall. Better hope the Spit pilot is not patient, because if he's willing to conserver his E and wait for the kill, your odds are pretty low I'd think.

That said if you are out of E and options, it's better than simply riding the stall horn and waiting to die if the other craft has better low speed sustained turn performance .

SlapShot · « **Reply #36 on:** August 10, 2003, 01:00:10 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Lephturn
I would think any amount of vertical component would end up superior to such a maneuver. I'd only want to try it I think with low fuel and when I was totally flat on the deck and out of options. That said, in any plane with decent low speed handling with good low speed accelleration, it might be worth trying. Versus something like a Spit I think the real strength of this maneuver is to tease the enemy into pushing it too hard and riding his craft a bit too deep into stall. Better hope the Spit pilot is not patient, because if he's willing to conserver his E and wait for the kill, your odds are pretty low I'd think.

That said if you are out of E and options, it's better than simply riding the stall horn and waiting to die if the other craft has better low speed sustained turn performance .

WOW !!! ... now there is a name that I haven't seen on this BBS in quite awhile.

Just passin' thru lephturn or will we see you in the sky ?

Ack-Ack · « **Reply #37 on:** August 10, 2003, 05:19:05 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Lephturn

That said if you are out of E and options, it's better than simply riding the stall horn and waiting to die if the other craft has better low speed sustained turn performance .

It's definitely a last ditch maneuver.

ack-ack

Lephturn · « **Reply #38 on:** August 11, 2003, 12:02:18 PM »

At this point just poking around the BBS. I've been gone about a year, but I'm interested in getting back in. I moved cities last year and was offline for a couple of months... after which my account was gone. I'll have to call up the crew at HTC and see about getting that thing re-instated.

It was a nice break, but I really miss shooting down all you dweebs and listening to ya whine about it on CH 1.

Heheh.

I'm sure you guys miss having that furballing P-47 around to beat on anyway.

Flyboy · « **Reply #39 on:** August 11, 2003, 12:37:22 PM »

no disrespect akak but i belive that if the spit pilot know's what his doing, the P38 will loose

it was a gryffin engine spit there and it has worse hendling then the merlin spitIX we have in AH

i would love to go to the training arena to test spit9 and spit14 vrs the 38

Golfer · « **Reply #40 on:** August 15, 2003, 05:05:09 PM »

i think i remember this one akak..."big john" wasnt that his nickname? That spitfire pilot landed at their airfield and started spouting his mouth off saying how great the new spitfire is and said that he will take on any P-38 pilot at the base, and then all the guys started shouting for "Big John" to come out. Even has some line crewmen drain half his fuel from his tanks after he inquired to the brit how much fuel he had to which the reply was "half petrol".

I'm sure you've read the one about a turnfight around the eiffel tower as well...sure got a laugh there. ooh ooh...and Gunther Rall when they got into a 190 vs P-38 fight in a quarry pit. Memory is working overdrive now

Golfer

Ack-Ack · « **Reply #41 on:** August 15, 2003, 06:29:20 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Golfer
and Gunther Rall when they got into a 190 vs P-38 fight in a quarry pit. Memory is working overdrive now

Golfer

Or when Galland crapped his pants when he saw Lowell dive after his FW190 when he tried his Split-Arse escape to the deck. Lucky for Galland that Lowell was down to fumes and couldn't continue the pursuit.

ack-ack

Golfer · « **Reply #42 on:** August 15, 2003, 10:28:36 PM »

it was galland...my apologies. I got my luftwaffe wires crossed trying to get my memories back online

Puke · « **Reply #43 on:** August 22, 2003, 02:27:14 AM »

I spoke with a P-38 pilot who used the term "box turns." Is that the same thing or what is that?
This same pilot is friends with Gunthar Raul who I was told stated the LW pilots let their rookies fight the P-38 when they encountered it.