Author Topic: Island Hopping  (Read 1889 times)

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23047
Island Hopping
« Reply #45 on: September 24, 2003, 11:42:35 PM »
I'd be surprised if we don't get a Ki-84 by AH v2.03.
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline Arlo

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24759
Island Hopping
« Reply #46 on: September 25, 2003, 12:46:56 AM »
Until then, I hope some of us can accept some reasonable substitutes. After all, face it, it's probably gonna be a long time before we see new planes added. We could take a look at what we have to work with and work up some skins. That being said, that doesn't neccesarily commit any CT staffer to enabling those planes ... but it would be nice to have the skins ready just in case we decide to try some subbing for awhile. They can always be turned back off. I would like to see all the terrains worked up including all of the skin subs that are developed. It's always nice to have options.

I've also liked the idea of game dynamics including research and development that is directly linked to a country's resource reserves. That way both sides can start out with early planesets and from that point on the introduction of new planes and vehicles is hinged on their own decisions to invest in R&D as well as their ability to keep their industrial infrastructure intact.

For instance ... if the Japanese players (or their ranking commanders) decide to develop the Tony as fast as possible, they can invest resource points from their industry to do so. Since this would be a constant map, we can't actually model material being attrited from strat bombing nor can we actually model the shifting of resources from a production line to a research facility. But maybe we can simulate it by assigning key industrial centers "research points" or "production points." These factories would then be specifically tasked to build a certain type plane or vehicle *(ports ships even?) and the number of fields that can up that type of plane or the number of ports/fleets that are activated or shut down can be directly related to the points assigned and the distribution of those points by the players. This, of course, would have to be maintained by the CT staff.

Conversely, the players could decide to develop newer and better planes by taking production points and redesignating them as research points. Then that particular facility is working on the development of the new plane or vehicle.

Such a system would make things more dynamic and instead of introducing planes on a predetermined calendar date, either side could try to bump it up a bit (or they could even decide to slow it a little and have more bases providing the types of planes, vehicles and boats they already have available).

This also adds some dimension to the strat bomber dedicated players (given each side has developed decent bombers to do this). Of course, the precise information of what factory is building or developing what should remain a secret of the CMs that are being entrusted to maintain the system, I suppose. Unless we get even fancier and try to come up with some way to implement intelligence gathering.

Yeah .... it's a tad bit but I think it's doable and may be worth looking into. But then again, think tanks often come up with all sorts of pipedreams. One player's pipedream is another's pipe filling. ;)

Whew!

*(By this we could make sure that the map or maps actually have several ports and fleets designed into them but not all of them neccesarily have to be activated until the fleets are actually built. Each side starts out with a certain number of fleets - I suppose in an early war setting the Japanese would have a considerably larger amount of tonnage afloat than the Allies - and as industry is managed, whatever is put into fleet production can enable new fleets. Conversly .... fleets that are sunk may actually stay sunk until they are replaced with new fleets built.)
« Last Edit: September 25, 2003, 01:31:29 AM by Arlo »

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23047
Island Hopping
« Reply #47 on: September 25, 2003, 01:05:10 AM »
But what would "investing research points in the Tony" do?  The Ki-61 is still going to be a Ki-61.  Its performance would not change.

Are you suggesting subing in a Bf109 or some such?  If so I think many, if not most, Ki-61 fliers will stick with the old Ki-61 as it handles better.  There's a reason we don't fly Bf109s...;)
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline Arlo

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24759
Island Hopping
« Reply #48 on: September 25, 2003, 01:23:47 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
But what would "investing research points in the Tony" do?  The Ki-61 is still going to be a Ki-61.  Its performance would not change.

Are you suggesting subing in a Bf109 or some such?  If so I think many, if not most, Ki-61 fliers will stick with the old Ki-61 as it handles better.  There's a reason we don't fly Bf109s...;)


You're not getting me. Investing in a Tony will eventually enable it for use. This is a seperate issue from the first paragraph promoting substitutions. The Tony is still the Tony.

Picture this:

The map starts out chronologically before the Guadalcanal campaign. The Japanese players have the A6M2, Val and Kate enabled. The Allied player has the F4F, SBD (Boston maybe? Maybe not.) As the "war" progresses, each side invests in development and they receive newer equipment (it could be the Tony - which already exists in the AH lineup - it could be something we subbed and skinned ... of course, if it's a better, later model {uber} plane ... then it'll take more resource points and cost more to produce).

Then if, by chance, the IJ players decide they want to skip working on the A6M5 and work on the Tony instead, they can. If the Allied players want to develop the FM2 and wait on working on the F4U (I would suggest that variants can't be skipped) - they can. If the development group has worked up an acceptable substitute for the Ki-84 ... and the IJ player has the research points available to invest and wants to .... he can.

Offline Arlo

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24759
Island Hopping
« Reply #49 on: September 25, 2003, 01:54:21 AM »
Ok ... another example:

The Japanese player's industrial infrastructure is intact and factory 12 is producing Kates using 240 points to supply 4 forward fields with them at the cost of 60 points per field (it could be producing other stuff as well). The ranking IJ players decide that they want to use 180 of the Kate points for development of the A6M5. Doing so, they have to inform the CT staff of not only their decision to do this but which three fields will no longer have Kates available.

Likewise, if the IJ players decide to keep the production of 240 points worth of Kates out of that factory ... and lets say that that factory gets destroyed by a bombing raid .. then the CT staffer should make Kates unavailable at those 4 fields (and whatever else that factory is supplying to other places). If those points are already transferred to research, then the IJ side loses 280 points of A6M5 research until that factory is rebuilt.

Yeah .. this would take some effort on the staff's part. I dunno ... maybe there could be an easier variation. This has been more of a scenario idea of mine than a regular arena idea. I'd still like to see R&D dynamics though.

*edit* On second thought .... neh .... this'd be way to much for a one week run.

I *still* like the idea of incorporating as many options for variation into the map as possible, though. Substituted skins, multiple fleet compositions, etc. It would be a fair amount of work at first but it would give the staffers more to work with without having the whole terrain reworked to add something or take it away. Wanna try the Ki-84 (La-7) sub? It's there and skinned - turn it on and give it a try. Don't like? Look - we also skinned an La-5fn *click**click* Has the war progressed and the Allies built some fleets? *click* Did the Japanese side lose a fleet? *click*

*ShruG*
« Last Edit: September 25, 2003, 02:08:01 AM by Arlo »

Offline Jester

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2753
Island Hopping
« Reply #50 on: September 25, 2003, 06:14:20 AM »
Sakai's post above got me thinking of how to get the F4U into a set-up....

How about this as a future PTO set-up....

MAP: Guadalcanal yet we imagine it later in the war say 1943.

1. As stated above - the Allies will start out on the Bottom Rung of the ladder with only F4F's, SBD's & TBM's from the CV's till they take a field on the canal. The IJN will get the A6M2 & 5 & KI-61 from the start.

2. Once the canal is taken & secured, the Allies will get the P-40E & Boston bombers. P-40 & Boston could also be manually added after the whole island is secure to represent the time when only USN & USMC air was on the island. Later on the early model F4U might be manually added.

3. As the fight moves up the Island Chain - Somewhere in the middle will be a couple bases for the F4U pre-set up. Catch is they will not be announced. The Allies will have to take all the islands up the chain to that point or "Island Hop" to get to the F4U bases.

4. Midway through the set-up the CM's can manually enable the Hellcat on the CV's & remove the Wildcats. Same for Wildcats from land basses as well as upgrading to the A-20 or B-26 to represent the B-25's in the area.

5. Maybe also the last or next to last day of the set-up, the P-38 will be enabled on the canal. Tough to do as it is a late model 1944 version but possible. Maybe B-17 as well to represent the B-24's.

I would be willing to run a set-up like this if there will be enough people to fly it.

As I said I would also like to see more PTO set-up's in the CT. I am an old Hellcat driver by heart. I just fly the Japanese stuff to help out with the numbers.

Real weakness you are going to find with ANY PTO set-up is that hardly anyone wants to fly the Japanese side. Too bad - there is alot of potential out there for PTO set-ups.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2003, 06:22:56 AM by Jester »
Lt. JESTER
VF-10 "GRIM REAPERS"

WEBSITE:  www.VF10.org

Offline najdorf

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 267
Island Hopping
« Reply #51 on: September 25, 2003, 09:08:01 AM »
Potentially,  I think there are two problems with the rolling planeset based on base capture idea.

1.  I don't think a week will be long enough.
2.  And most importantly, what if the allies don't advance?  Or, they capture a base, get a new plane and then lose it.

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23047
Island Hopping
« Reply #52 on: September 25, 2003, 09:43:08 AM »
Other potential problem:

P-38Ls (July, 1944 fighter) and F4Us brutualize the A6M5b and Ki-61-I.

N1K2 would have to show up as well or you wont have any Japanese players.  Even the N1K2 can't handle P-38Ls that have a slight clue.

Arlo,

Ok, got it now.  Interesting.
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline keyapaha

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 561
Island Hopping
« Reply #53 on: September 25, 2003, 09:46:54 AM »
would be cool to have a pacific theatre up all the time in a seperate arena,maybe once AH2 is up to full speed they will have a pac theatre up all the time.

 jester I like the idea stated above,but like naj said I dont think you will have enough time to capture all the bases needed to fly the f4u's but I could be wrong lets try it.

Offline Jester

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2753
Island Hopping
« Reply #54 on: September 25, 2003, 09:52:00 AM »
Najdorf, usually base capture isn't that big a problem with Allies vs. Japan. Depends on weather they want to try and take ground or just "Furball."
But, another solution might be to manually move the front so much each day if it has not done so own it's own. IMO the Allies should take and hold their own ground to get the planes they want but it isn't necessary.

Karnak, the 38 is just an idea. Not necessary to include but the George could be added at the same time to offset it. Maybe even the LA-5 skinned as a KI-87 till we get the real thing.
Lt. JESTER
VF-10 "GRIM REAPERS"

WEBSITE:  www.VF10.org